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Ponychan-MLPchan Merger >>>/site/15219

test mushl3t!MushyWDhdg 361

Official Site Merger Discussion Thread
This post was edited by a moderator on .

Cross Breeze!Q1IPegaSus 3683

File: 1371831753546.png (426.1 KB, 800x450, 800px-Rainbow_Dash_reading_sam…)

I'd like us to start off with the bare minimum both sites need to agree on so we have a place to start. Namely…

- That the site be owned by it's actual System Admins, Mithent and Macil

- That the System Admins be afforded all the duties, responsibilities, privileges, and powers possessed by the other; Co-Admins

- That both site staffs retain roughly equal representation

- Reduced board bloat; MLPchan has recently streamlined it's own board structure to facilitate this

- That a board such as /anon/ and perhaps other such agreed upon boards have lessened regulations regarding their posts, i.e. NSFW

- That the site not be run on Kusaba

- That a new server is required for the above

(Optional but highly desired if possible)

- That Community Admins be appointed, one from each site, (MLPchan nominates our own admin Anonthony unless it is strongly desired otherwise), and that these Co-Admins be placed in charge of the team of moderators, rendering decisions on such matters presented to them, including coordinating activities, managing projects, interacting and representing the community, etc.

- That the Sys Admins retain the right to break a voting deadlock, if ever, and maintain superseding authority to veto or pass any decision that they see fit, but under all other circumstances such authority is to be placed under the discretion of the Community Admins, such that System Administrators may attend to site maintenance and the addition of new features unmolested.


This is not meant to be a comprehensive list of all issues; it is merely a starting point for our discussion. We are hopeful compromises can be reached if necessary and that all parties will be satisfied, for the betterment of our respective communities. Please speak freely on any issues or complaints with the above or additional points to be brought to light.

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3684

>>3683
I will posit that the community management positions need not necessarily be "in charge" of the team of moderators.

During the first discussions this was a point of contention and I acknowledge that's a potentially valid issue.

So long as no specific incident arises involving the moderation team that would require attention (which the whole team would be involved in discussing anyways, no doubt), the moderation team can act largely on its own and simply report directly to the admins. all of these moderators are now experienced and well versed in the job and there should be little need for them to be 'managed.'

Essentially the idea is division-of-labor. The SysAdmins are free to spend their site-time working on code, keeping things running smoothly, adding new features and the like, without diverting much of their time to moderating or managing community or staff. The community organizers are free to spend their site-time organizing activities, managing projects, leading site discussions, keeping a pulse on the community and so on, without diverting much time to moderating or so on. And the moderators are free to spend their site-time moderating, handling reports, answering emails and appeals, and so on without diverting time from that as well. Though heirarchy would exist as you noted, with the admins having a final say in matters, though through both personality and design would likely both be largely hands-off and allow the staff of managers and mods to work out the best things to do and only need to break deadlocks or veto/pass in rare events.

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3685

File: 1371834346483.png (138.11 KB, 507x454, 136827231369.png)

Let's see…
> That the site be owned by it's actual System Admins, Mithent and Macil
I won't object really.
> That the System Admins be afforded all the duties, responsibilities, privileges, and powers possessed by the other; Co-Admins
check

> That both site staffs retain roughly equal representation

I wouldn't put it in numbers, but maybe. This is really something to oversee and to accomodate to each his wishes.

> Reduced board bloat; MLPchan has recently streamlined it's own board structure to facilitate this

We'll discuss what we need.

> That the site not be run on Kusaba

Likely, but we need help to move Ponychan anyways.

> That Community Admins be appointed,

Well, if this really helps. I don't see the dire need from afar, especially if this means decisions can't be made until the community manager is on.
So we're gonna have to expand on what role a community manager plays.

> That the Sys Admins retain the right to break a voting deadlock

Could, but they can outveto eachother probably?

>>3684

Ah, more comprehensive.
Thou I bet community managers should better get along with eachother as best as possible, since it's best to work with eachother on a combined site, rather than to anthagonise one another.

3686

File: 1371835282831.png (10.72 KB, 150x150, twilight__reading_by_takua770-…)

/lurkmode

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3687

File: 1371835425170.png (142.63 KB, 324x325, 136114244240.png)

Also, is this a good place to hold the discussion?

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3688

File: 1371837136134.png (129.66 KB, 500x396, tumblr_moq032dN1E1rlmdgso1_500…)

>>3687
Preferably as a place for the staff to discuss that's public, without distraction from everyone else's input all at once. At least that's what I imagine the initial idea that (TGSB I think?) had.

3689

File: 1371837883614.png (67.73 KB, 612x619, blat blat nigga damn y'all tha…)

Present and accounted for.

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3690

File: 1371843717515.png (228.59 KB, 425x425, check that out.png)

I noticed that i got my time to go home and we're not shouting and rage quitting yet. huzzah!

Anyways stuff to think about.

> 1. Is this workable for both our communities?

Ponychan has a sore reputations in the eyes of mlpchan and /mlp/.Are they all as eager to be confronted with ponychan again?
Converslely, ponychan is a haven for people wanting to harbour from the harsh influences from outside. Would they feel secure for this to happen?
How do we best keep the ideas of our posters in mind?

> 2. Ponychan's server switch to tinyboard and stuff

Will require some thought since it will be a task to move certain codes and databases and whatever to the new location.
well, inb4 just let it all be. I don't know if it would be wise to leave behind all ponychan's essential data and the code that people worked hard on to develop. As I said, it might be worth for Mithent and Macil to sort out what can be salvaged and what can be let go. (so far from my area of expertise)

> 3. Personal issues

Oh, they're there, I bet that. we should find an opportunity here to reconsile for the greater good. A staff needs to work well together. (magic of friendship and all)

> 4. board structure.

Mlpchan has cleaned it all up and now we're gonna make a mess over it. we need to know what boards on ponychan can sit on their own and how to accomodate others while still retaining their authenticity somewhat.

> 5. Ruleset.

Are there actually any differences in ponychan/mlpchan rules. Do people want ponychan or mlpchan mods to enforce the rules at the rate they are doing now? What part plays/anon/ in this?
And can we set up a protection from certain content on non-free boards?

> 6. miscelaneous

Stuff like unbanning all the "convicts" residing on mlpchan. Conversely knowing that we can provide a goodhome to ponychan and all its content. Whether people lik it or not.

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3693

>>3692
Well, as I understood, Ponychan took kusaba and built it into something new.

but as i said
> (so far from my area of expertise)

Fen 3695

File: 1371848446538.png (1.48 MB, 1233x1080, 349016__safe_vector_rule%252B6…)

>>3683
>>3684
No objections here.

>>3690
>How do we best keep the ideas of our posters in mind?

By having equal overview in terms of mods.

A ponychan user generally trusts a ponychan mod to stop things from going to shit, from their perspective.

Likewise, an mlpchan user generally trusts an mlpchan mod to stop things from going to shit, from their perspective.

/mlp/ user gives zero fucks as long as they can do their thing unmolested.

As long as a mod that somebody can trust is on the team, they shouldn't have any major problems unless they think that their trusted mod/s would be influenced by the presence of a mod they dont trust.


>Servers

No idea on this, i've had conflicting reports on the state of our kusaba / tinyboard.
The latter is not as bad as people make it out to be / it's a horrible mess.
The former is the best thing ever / it's not that different than our kusaba.
etc
While it would be sad to have all the work that's gone into the site over the years be effectively made moot, if switching to tinyboard brings a lot of tangible benefits then i say we should do it.
This is really a discussion for the tech mods though.

>Personal issues

We should probably air those at some point.

Or just bury them and start over.


>Board structure

Sorting it as soon as oat chat thing is dealt with, so i'll be making a thread in the next month couple of days or so.

>Rules

As of now, the only rules that are different are the special exception the #mature tag brings.

>Misc

I figure starting with a completely clean slate would be better.

If somebody makes enough trouble to be banned, then they'll get banned again.
If they dont, then they haven't caused trouble and theres no problem.

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3696

>>3695
>If somebody makes enough trouble to be banned, then they'll get banned again.
>If they dont, then they haven't caused trouble and theres no problem.
We only really have like 5 permabanned people anyways, and I'm pretty sure like 3 of them are also perma'd on Ponychan - Frost and/or Stevan, Remember, Agendanon, one or two more.

Just answering that part before I eat, I'll post again a little later.

Macil!/5s/Techmk 3697

>>3690
>server stuff
Migrating existing data (posts and images) would not be an issue.

Tom' the /♥/ bringer 3699

File: 1371858016741.png (124.47 KB, 300x330, uuuuh.png)

My thoughts on this, and my one and only post in this thread. Not necessarily as a mod, but as someone who knows what the situation is on the mod-side. I could post this in the /site/ thread, but eh.

Even if you disregard the problems on the community-side, and that is a HELL of a big disregarding, you need to think about how very fundamentally differently both staffs function. An eventual merger was discussed a month ago, and it was kept between mods because we wanted to see if we could all get along before we even thought of bringing this to members.

Guess what, it did not work, I wouldn't go as far as to call it a fiasco, but it did not work - because both staffs simply cannot function in a way that satisfies them without making huge concessions. Because we do not function in the same way.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the decision should not be up to members, but I am saying - a site's health depends greatly on how efficiently its staff can work, MLPchan has proven it by becoming bigger than Ponychan in less than a year with one asset in our pocket: Efficient moderation.

And an eventual site merger, as it is, would not result in an efficient staff, quite the contrary, it would probably result in awful, awful things.

And EVEN if you disregard that, without mentioning any names, I believe everyone who participated in the original discussions knows some staff members are so strongly opposed to this that this can never happen.

Now mind you, I didn't even post my opinion of the question as a staff member, so I'll be blunt: I do not believe it can work, and it's going to take a hell of a solid plan to get me to change my mind, because last time only strengthened my views on the matter.

Fen 3703

File: 1371867624844.png (188.69 KB, 400x450, Spike 2-8 (22).png)

>>3699
>because both staffs simply cannot function in a way that satisfies them without making huge concessions. Because we do not function in the same way.

I would be okay with working with one or all or any combination of mlpchans staff in equal capacity as things currently stand right now.

Dont really know how much clearer i can make that.

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3705

File: 1371875288895.png (145.03 KB, 340x420, well, see.png)

>>3699
I don't want to have this fight.

But I have to say I did not experience any significant growth on mlpchan's part while posting here over the year, unless you count the recent spike with /anon/ and /mlp/.

Cross Breeze!Q1IPegaSus 3709

File: 1371881227954.png (97.17 KB, 279x277, 136928025500.png)

>>3699

This is not the place for pride; we wouldn't be having these discussions if we didn't believe we could work towards a mutually beneficial compromise, for both staff and community.

Grudges aren't going to get us anywhere. We need to let go of past grievances or we will be mired in them.

>>3690
>>3695

It's largely agreed then that those currently banned under either site would have their bans lifted for the new one, and would be re-banned if it proved necessary on a case by case basis.

Server issues, both economically and technically, have been decided as non-issues, by Anonthony and Macil respectively.

Working title, at least for now, for the merged site is MLPonychan; though I forget who originally proposed it, it seems fitting and will serve for now.

Can I ask whether you are in favor of community admins as a staff or against, and who you would like to hold that position?

Also, is some mature content a deal breaker? We feel /anon/, /fic/, and /art/ benefit best from having those restrictions lifted. Our current settings allow for such content to be hidden by a user if they desire, both by hiding mature threads and spoilering mature images as a default.

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3710

>>3709
I would posit that if a person is currently banned on both sites it might be best for that ban to remain - Frost, StevAn, Zamoonda, et al.

Roger seconded the idea of Ponyboards.net for consideration in the other thread.

Cross Breeze!Q1IPegaSus 3711

File: 1371881527742.gif (611.25 KB, 200x225, 1368911285420.gif)

>>3710

>Frost, Stevan, Zamoonda

>implying they are not all the same person

Agreed, however.

How about you make the big wordy posts and I posit things, huh?

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3712

>>3711
I just got some textwallin' out already today. Inspirational tripe. I'll try to be refueled for more tomorrow.

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3713

File: 1371884131523.png (190.69 KB, 376x400, that filly.png)

>>3709
I think as Anonthony put it, community manager versus the great admins can be a plus. Mithentand Macil can focus on keeping the site up to date and improved while not being dragged in for every community decision or complaint.
Greatly reduces the time they're forced to spend on drama and such.

Part of me says we better postpone politics as who gets what position till we get the basics right, since we're gonna have to warm up on how things will run and be enticed to the idea completely before politics messes things up again.

But if I have to think of people, I do believe that community managers on both sides should be people that get along with eachother well enough since they need to decide to do things in unison and not have squabbes with the rest of the staff.

As for mature content, it's not a deal breaker for me. BUT I do want to keep it contained within restrictions and wouldsay that we have to look out that it stays there.
Same goes for /anon/. I think we can live with /anon/ as a largely rule free region. And anons can post on other boards too. But we must assure that /anon/ doesn't get free reign outside their board.

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3714

File: 1371884200161.png (186.41 KB, 376x400, you agree.png)

>>3713
oh, nevermind that image. I didn't intend to make her look angry.

3715

Just to state my position, I'm open to it on a personal level, if a mutually satisfactory agreement can be reached and if the communities approve. That would require the agreement of the staff, including Orange, who might not run the site but still owns it and its accounts. It seems to be that the reaction from the sections of the community who have discussed it so far is generally positive, but there are staff on both sides who appear to have serious reservations about the idea, and those differences would have to be resolved before this could be any more than speculation. Therefore I'm only talking on behalf of myself, not the site.

I did think that part of the point of this would be that the combined site would have Ponychan's better name recognition, incidentally? Moving to a new name again might help mend bruised reputations, but also lose any recognition that either name has. Ponyboards sounds like a forum to me (what with -chan being the near-universal descriptor for an imageboard), and the unfortunate use of the "f" word in the Project May announcement was cue for derision.

Fen 3717

>>3709
Yes to community admins and mature content isn't a deal breaker for me.

I'd rather not get bogged down in politics so I'll abstain from suggesting anyone for now.

I also prefer MLPonychan for the name.

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3718

>>3715
>Therefore I'm only talking on behalf of myself, not the site.
I believe that can be levied towards one of the problems people feel exists - that there isn't really anyone in a position to actually speak for the site.
As for accounts, it's more like 'account' singular. Moving servers is very much a non-issue. We made a server move last night with hardly a notice.

>>3717
The name. Hm. I just wish there was something really catchy and descriptive that wasn't taken already. I mean just putting ML in front of Ponychan, you might as well just keep things as Ponychan. But I have an aesthetic ocd and maybe it's just me, if it looks and sounds good to others.

And I suggest you for Ponychan's member of the community leadership whatever-we-call-it role.

Macil!/5s/Techmk 3719

I think a new name would help to set the appropriate tone for a merger, but existing names are valuable too, and "ponychan" is a simple and recognized name. Granted the recognition isn't spotless in all circles, but a merger could deal with that with the right PR. (Personally, I think the name MLPonychan isn't simple enough and doesn't parse naturally for me: "MLP" "onychan".)

IRC and other such things. 3720

I've actually just returned and in fact have no idea what's actually going on on other site, I've gotten the gist of things from second hand accounts, but by no means actually know what's going on.

As far as this site merger is concerned, I have to ask what would happen to things like Ponychans IRC, and the people who maintain it.

I'm also required to ask weather or not I would continue to do mantinance on the merged sites Faq, Contact Page, and then the board the IRC is on, if it were kept.


On a personally note, I think this merger could be really good for both communities and I think MLPonychan is a retarded name

/returns to lurking.

Anonymous 3721

>>3720
This thread is for the staff to discuss the idea in a way that users can read all the discussion, all user inquiries should be directed in one of the open public threads on /site/ or /meta/.

As to the answer to your question, there is no decision yet on the IRC. It would be likely that with combined staffs there would be little need for outside help in maintaining what would (hopefully) be a simpler, streamlined FAQ as well.

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3722

File: 1371943142514.png (181.7 KB, 379x255, you see 2.png)

>>3721
I think we should keep the IRC and use it to its full intent. Get mods to lurk it, maybe make a mod tag for the irc if need be
people can have a direct way on the site to get in contact with the mods.

3747

File: 1372019977495.png (286.43 KB, 570x660, eh heh 4.png)

…while i don't mind putting this conversation back on the table, i just don't think Ponychan is ready for a merger yet.

i trust a lot of the mlpchan staff better now… and i'd even be up for a duel adminship, but i still don't think the communities will mesh too well.

That said, i think, in time, this could be more possible.

Frankly, the biggest thing here is that it must be in each community's interest to act before such a thing occurs.

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3748

File: 1372022838236.png (236.14 KB, 425x422, 1368489558087.png)

>>3747
As that thing is raised, what are the community's interests?
What concerns are there?

I think it's important. But equally as well, we can't shield them from what could be great.

Anonymous 3749

File: 1372034625188.png (309.47 KB, 1024x720, 446.png)

>>3747
>i just don't think Ponychan is ready for a merger yet.
Why?

Crimson Risk !RISkQqf4EM 3750

File: 1372039074404.png (255.51 KB, 506x496, 131855230662.png)

>>3721
Considering that this thread is intended to be for staff only, as you said, you should use your tripcode so that we can verify that you are staff.

————-

I guess nobody else is going to say it, so I will. It's good to air things out at least, right?

I remember the circumstances surrounding MLPchan's opening. I remember that it was a forceful attempt to take Ponychan away to a new place. It was even originally going to be called ponychan.co before people were quite vocal about how awful that would be. Ponychan staff was called horrible and publicly smeared by certain MLPchan staff. A campaign was undertaken to move /fic/ from Ponychan to MLPchan, and all it did was fracture and damage the /fic/ community. And now that it hasn't worked out as hoped, with MLPchan having less daily posts on average than Ponychan a year later, it appears that another direction is being taken for approach to the same old plan.

While I'm reluctant to point fingers, it's an undeniable fact that MLPchan was born as a schism in the community. It was born in an effort to remove Ponychan's old mods from authority, and take it's user base somewhere else. It failed, and now Ponychan mods are being approached by the very people who openly attempted to destroy them and being asked to be forgiving and trusting regardless of everything that has happened. It should be obvious why there would be heavy hesitance and resentment.

Meanwhile there are still sections of the community who may be entirely unaware that these talks have been approached in the first place. Thus, I do not believe such a plan is being approached in best interest of "the community" as some of it's proponents insist. How can you even say that without asking if people want it, running polls, etc? I know for a fact that there are people on both sites who do not respect or desire contact with the other.

Speaking of respect, our individual mod staffs have grown that for other members over time. However we have not grown it for members of the staff on the other side. Mod cliques would inevitably form and internal power struggling and politics would become more severe than ever as people try to decide who will be fired, who will be the authority, etc. (I haven't forgotten that either, Cross Breeze.)

MLPchan and Ponychan have grown to be different places over their time separated. Quite recently, the rift has grown even wider. For example, Ponychan tries to be SFW, and now MLPchan has even picked up mature content generals from /mlp/.

I do not think a merge is likely. It is a nice pipe dream, something that could have happened if the world was perfect and nobody ever wronged anyone else, but we're only human and here we are.

Additionally, I would not even humor the idea of a merge unless the site kept the name "Ponychan." That name is well known, has appeared in places like Equestria Daily many times over the past two years. Even Lauren Faust knows about it and considers it a relevant place, as evidenced by the fact that she chose it to visit when she got bugged over the fact that she visited /mlp/. It is an established place known about by many in the fandom. Giving up that established branding over a sense of aesthetic pride would be stupid and would likely cause loss of more users.

I would also expect that we wouldn't have another incident like the "Blember Borm" thing, that alone caused me to lose a lot of "professional" respect for MLPchan staff as moderators, considering that it was site staff singling out one person to be mocked. I don't even care who was individually responsible, as a team, you were all in it together. That's a code I've done my best to live by the entire time I've moderated.

Feel free to try and put these feelings to rest, but it's going to take a lot. They have been festering for a long time, and certainly with ample reason.

Currently, I do not support a merge. Faster boards would be nice but I am loathe to destroy what we already have and build something new. It wouldn't be Ponychan anymore, if all of the changes proposed happened.

————–

To MLPchan staffers: I don't hold grudges, and I forgive you personally, and I want to be your friends. However I don't disregard what has happened in the past as far as site politics go, either. I've been taken advantage of many times, and I don't intend to be again.

Fenolio!X.Layton0s 3751

File: 1372039588280.gif (237.91 KB, 200x200, 528.gif)

>>3750
>Considering that this thread is intended to be for staff only, as you said, you should use your tripcode so that we can verify that you are staff.

>>3749
Was me.

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3752

File: 1372041484604.jpg (701.1 KB, 1024x1448, 1372001933999.jpg)

>>3750
Certainly. Let's begin with this, then.

>I remember the circumstances surrounding MLPchan's opening. I remember that it was a forceful attempt to take Ponychan away to a new place

Let us be clear - it was an attempt to give people any other viable choice besides continuing to languish under what I will not sidestep from calling an incompetent, absent and capricious owner and admin. Nor will avoid saying it absolutely was an attempt to get people to move. That's not at question. People vote with their feet and there was no reason to hide the fact that we campaigned to show we offered what they weren't being given.

>It was even originally going to be called ponychan.co before people were quite vocal about how awful that would be

I have said this many times and feel I'll probably have to say it a few more; the one single internal discussion document Eudae unfortunately and accidentally copied that showed that name was never a final choice, and I had acquired several domains prior to our start while we were in planning stages.

>Ponychan staff was called horrible and publicly smeared by certain MLPchan staff.

If in this time of outright honesty, I would appreciate it if you said flat out who and what. Who said it, and what they said. Which staff? Lawny? James? Cross? Starshine? Tom? Macil? Eudae? Myself? And what was said beyond the things that could actually be reasonable levied at you guys - like apathy, lack of interest, burnout, lack of care, going along with terrible ideas or failing to represent the community well? How much of what was said about you would you deny, would you say was smear and not somewhat true?

>It was born in an effort to remove Ponychan's old mods from authority, and take it's user base somewhere else

It was born in an effort to completely remake a new community without a terribly unhelpful administration and mod staff that in many ways had failed to live up to their authority, authority they had vested in them from users who should have been able to trust them, but in many ways couldn't.

>It failed

Is that so? Is creating from scratch a community that, in less than one full year, rivals an established and well-known predecessor that has been around three times as long, failure? Is the latent effect of having done so, that of forcing that predecessor to wake up and make changes it likely never would have otherwise, for the good and better of its own remaining community, failure? Is having, over the last six months of this year or so of existence, directly and actively helped that predecessor with its problems, when they would have been very, very unlikely to do the same, failure? That is an interesting definition of failure, if so.

>and now Ponychan mods are being approached by the very people who openly attempted to destroy them

"We" (the people who apparently wanted to destroy you, as people and mods, apparently collectively) didn't approach "you" (collective) and trying to frame it as such paints a less than helpful picture. In fact, "we" didn't begin or seek this second round of discussions at all.

>(… ) How can you even say that without asking if people want it, running polls, etc?

The purpose of running massive double sitewide polls about something without even knowing if the people who would have to work to make it happen would be willing to negotiate would be completely without sense.

>Speaking of respect, our individual mod staffs have grown that for other members over time. However we have not grown it for members of the staff on the other side. Mod cliques would inevitably form and internal power struggling and politics would become more severe than ever as people try to decide who will be fired, who will be the authority, etc. (I haven't forgotten that either, Cross Breeze.)

The only purpose of internal struggle is ever over position and pecking order, which has always been stupid despite how much it's plagued Ponychan internally. (Nor are you, personally, exempt from them, as I know specific incidents would attest.)

>MLPchan and Ponychan have grown to be different places over their time separated. Quite recently, the rift has grown even wider. For example, Ponychan tries to be SFW, and now MLPchan has even picked up mature content generals from /mlp/.

Less a matter of cultural difference and more a matter of working out solution.

>something that could have happened if the world was perfect and nobody ever wronged anyone else

And yet, somehow, far more difficult, complicated and intricate meshings occur in the real world with far higher stakes. Somehow.

>Additionally, I would not even humor the idea of a merge unless the site kept the name "Ponychan."

Personally I never stated outright opposition to this. But let us be honest about something:

>That name is well known, has appeared in places like Equestria Daily many times over the past two years. Even Lauren Faust knows about it and considers it a relevant place, as evidenced by the fact that she chose it to visit when she got bugged over the fact that she visited /mlp/. It is an established place known about by many in the fandom

What remains of Ponychan's 'brand power' and name recognition is as much a detriment as it is a benefit, as that name is synonymous with many negative things.

>as a team, you were all in it together. That's a code I've done my best to live by the entire time I've moderated.

I feel you might not want to start down this particular line of discussion, considering all the things you would then be "in" for together as a mod team in terms of specific moderation incidents.

>Faster boards would be nice but I am loathe to destroy what we already have and build something new.

This has always been far more than about building a 'bigger' community, since it would also be about building a better community.

>However I don't disregard what has happened in the past as far as site politics go, either. I've been taken advantage of many times, and I don't intend to be again.

Nor do I, or we. It's not as if we've magically forgotten the public call-out on a random anon as me for the purpose of shaming the owner of a competing site, or of the jab at the site with the mlpchan.com link, or no small amount of private smearing in return or perceived retaliation, let alone what is highly suspected of Ponychan's one-time admin/one-time mod Dagan Bronstein and those who supported him, or of actions taking like those that were taken against dash-chan with similar intent towards them.

I remember not long after much of this, how you were unsure if you wanted to continue to be a part of the pony community, or at the very least, continue in your role as a moderator. And I remember that when you asked me what you should do, what I said. How I encouraged you not to give up - not to quit, like others had tried to do to you in the past - despite the difficult situation at the time.

There were two possibilities that existed when we left those 12 months or so ago. Either Ponychan would have continued down the path it was on - to immolation, to implosion, from internal drama, to cracking under its own weight, to administration or more schism or some plan or another by its resident sociopath. Or, it would be forced to face its harsh truths and make substantial, lasting changes. The latter happened, slowly over time, and it stabilized. But we don't and haven't forgotten how it got there and what it was like and what of those problems remain, and as much as we (and I) openly admit our own personal failings and regrets over specifics that happened, the "forgiveness" still seems like it's been a one way street, painted as if we have to be forgiven and yet receive no contrition in return.

Lastly,
>I am loathe to destroy what we already have
The good things of either shouldn't be destroyed. But not all the things at either are good.

Fenolio!X.Layton0s 3753

File: 1372041688554.png (299.52 KB, 2481x2220, 321.png)

>>3750
Also

>Meanwhile there are still sections of the community who may be entirely unaware that these talks have been approached in the first place. Thus, I do not believe such a plan is being approached in best interest of "the community" as some of it's proponents insist. How can you even say that without asking if people want it, running polls, etc?


"Hey everyone, do you want the sites to merge?"

"What do you mean exactly?"

"We dont know yet."


We need an actual proposal / list of things that would be included in the merge before we can ask people at large if they want it to happen.
Doing otherwise would just result in a clusterfuck of opinions that wont go anywhere.

If people dont like a particular thing in the proposal, they can ask for it to be changed.
If people want a particular thing in the proposal, they can ask for it to be added.

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3755

File: 1372042606438.png (395.58 KB, 385x500, AJ - wut am I even doin.png)

>>3754
I deleted >>>/bags/ for a reason, and Lulu is worst pony, Bags pls the adults are talking.

Rain bro!Dash/xVjEY 3756

Having JUST gotten back from work, I have yet to begin reading this thread. I will do so immediately, and will attempt to stay active in this discussion. Before I start, however, I will simply state that while I am in support of a hypothetical merger, I don't see one happening due to reluctance from our respective two teams to give too much ground.

Rain bro!Dash/xVjEY 3757

File: 1372044532850.gif (651.68 KB, 256x144, bwhahahaha.gif)

>>3683

> That the site not be run on Kusaba


After all the tweaking and modifications done to the site so far, I'd be hard pressed to consider it 'running on Kusaba'. But Then again, I'm not a code pony.>>3709


> That a board such as /anon/ and perhaps other such agreed upon boards have lessened regulations regarding their posts, i.e. NSFW


I'm a fan of loosening our restriction on NSFW content in general, provided we don't allow full on pornography.

>and that these Co-Admins be placed in charge of the team of moderators


No thanks.

> That the Sys Admins retain the right to break a voting deadlock, if ever, and maintain superseding authority to veto or pass any decision that they see fit, but under all other circumstances such authority is to be placed under the discretion of the Community Admins, such that System Administrators may attend to site maintenance and the addition of new features unmolested.


And if our Sys Admins don't agree?

>>3709

>Working title, at least for now, for the merged site is MLPonychan; though I forget who originally proposed it, it seems fitting and will serve for now.


Woah, what now?
How does one even pronounce 'MLPonychan'? Em-El-Ponychan? That sounds dumb.

>>3752

>or of the jab at the site with the mlpchan.com link

>pic

Hahaha oh god I'd forgotten all about that. I hope you're not all still bent out of shape over that, I don't think it was ever meant to be malicious.

Rain bro!Dash/xVjEY 3758

Oh yeah, one more thing. Conflicting mod tags.

Anonthony & 34, Starshine & Artee, Tom & Moony, Cross & Flutterguy, Lawny & Myself all have conflicting mod tags. And I certainly don't want to give up mine, and I doubt Lawny wants to give up theirs.

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3759

File: 1372045766032.gif (739.24 KB, 499x340, 2452116612JWXgf.gif)

>>3757
>And if our Sys Admins don't agree?
A deadlocked mod staff + differeing opinions from the admins can't be worse than running 4 polls about the idea over the course of 6 months instead.

>I hope you're not all still bent out of shape over that,

No, just pointing it out among other things in context in response to what Crimson was saying - but I don't think anyone here really took it as a laugh.

>Conflicting mod tags.

Probably the least of all concerns.

Rain bro!Dash/xVjEY 3760

>>3759

>Probably the least of all concerns.


I would argue the least of all concerns would be whether our hypothetical merger would use colgate as a default theme, or Pone.

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3761

File: 1372046155630.gif (53.3 KB, 400x274, president tombstone.gif)

>>3760
That would be the least of all concerns because it would clearly be Yotsuba.

>inb4 people use anything but Yotsuba or Tomorrow

>mfw

Rain bro!Dash/xVjEY 3762

>>3761

I also fail to see how this thread is any better than a skype group. This seems a lot slower.

[Switching over to posting as Bitchy!Gilda after this post, gettin bored of having to fill in the subject field]

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3763

>>3762
I think it was a desire for the users to be able to see the discussion in real time rather than having to pour over logs ex-post-facto.

Bitchy!Gilda5Xqko 3764

>>3763

Ah, okay. Not the best for productivity, I'd imagine, but makes sense.

Crimson Risk !RISkQqf4EM 3766

File: 1372050107606.png (132.47 KB, 362x388, 131788256247.png)

>>3752

>"we" didn't begin or seek this second round of discussions at all.

That is very much news to me. Then who did?

>Who said it, and what they said. Which staff?

I don't have it saved. I know much of it occurred on MLPchan itself. Probably by you, mostly. I remember it, and I've seen people speaking about it, and you acknowledge that things were said. See next point.

>things that could actually be reasonable levied at you guys - like apathy, lack of interest, burnout, lack of care, going along with terrible ideas or failing to represent the community well?

>a terribly unhelpful administration and mod staff that in many ways had failed to live up to their authority

These display the lack of respect I spoke of. You don't think we did a good job, you thought you could do it better, so you tried to take it away. And now you want us to trust you, and perhaps even give some of you authority over us. Think about it from my point of view.

Plenty of people have said that Ponychan staff does a good job, even back then. The fact that Ponychan didn't outright die when you opened up your new site option attests to that. But you latched on to these negative things about the job we did, and preached them.

I believe it is safe to say you no longer do this, and probably do not feel the same about us as you once did? If so, I am glad that we are past it now, but I have not forgotten, and that is why I want to bring this up again and talk about it. I don't hold it against you, but I won't just pretend it didn't happen, either.

>That is an interesting definition of failure, if so.

It failed to replace, or grow larger than Ponychan. That's all it failed at. I should have been more clear.

>(Nor are you, personally, exempt from them, as I know specific incidents would attest.)

Ask anyone on the staff. I have always staunchly opposed creating further tiers of authority within. If you want to talk about specific incidents, I am not afraid to, though I fear things will degenerate into getting messy and personal (not necessarily between you and I) rather quickly if we do, and that would derail this thread thoroughly, so I'd rather we not.

I've certainly considered quitting, but it's not for lack of interest. It's out of being overwhelmed by stress and pressure, or out of self-doubt. I readily admit to not being perfect. At times I have very low self-esteem.

>considering all the things you would then be "in" for together as a mod team in terms of specific moderation incidents.

I considered it. Mistakes were made, I was "in" for it with them all. I'm not excusing the mistakes, simply saying that I was part of them, as I doubt anyone would deny. I just putting it out there that I would want to be assured that something like that would never happen again, if I were to even consider a merge. That's important to me. For my side of it, and as an example of how this can go both ways, I'm glad to say nothing like what I did during the /ef/ deletion will ever happen again. I am indeed disappointed with myself for failing to prevent it, in addition to the obvious and often repeated fact that I regret what I did specifically. Perhaps this will be a good starting point for what each side would need to see from the other.

Again, I forgive, but I don't forget. Perhaps we are thinking of two different meanings to the word forgiveness. To me, it means I am not angry at you about it. What does it mean to you? That I will forget these things happened, and give you an utterly clean slate? Doing so seems like it would be naive, to me, but perhaps I can be persuaded.

It is good to talk about these things since there is clearly some buried feelings. Even if those feelings are only for me, though I am fairly sure they are not. I've already begun to understand your point of view better from it, and I hope that you will understand mine as well.

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3767

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>>3766
>That is very much news to me. Then who did?
This current push to have us talk again has primarily come from users. And mostly from users on /meta/, at Ponychan.

>I don't have it saved. I know much of it occurred on MLPchan itself. Probably by you, mostly. I remember it, and I've seen people speaking about it, and you acknowledge that things were said. See next point.

Alright then.

>You don't think we did a good job, you thought you could do it better, so you tried to take it away.

I don't disagree on the first part - but it's more like, a lot of people didn't think a good job was being done, and they all kept trying to get things to improve, nothing improved, and eventually, yes, people said "well, fuck it - let's go and do it ourselves." I try to see it from your perspective now, at the moment, so if you'll do the same for me and think about our perspective back then.

>I fear things will degenerate into getting messy and personal

Then I agree we'll just move past that for now.

>To me, it means I am not angry at you about it. What does it mean to you?

It means that everyone, not just some, acknowledge and regret their roles in the mistakes and failings that have occurred in the community. That the contrition isn't one way. You've already noted several times in that post you personally reciprocate, so I know that's not an issue for you.

Cross Breeze!Q1IPegaSus 3770

File: 1372060283215.jpg (166.46 KB, 1024x808, hey_guys__what__s_going_on__by…)

So I'm seeing a lot of interpersonal troubles holding us back, and not exactly a tangle of technical or community obstacles.

We're getting bogged down in old grudges, bruised egos, and pissing matches.

Who has the bigger site? Which mods were mean in the past? Who is trying to join who? Who is going to be in charge? Whose name will we keep? Do I get to keep my mod name?

These are such meaningless trivialities. I don't care if my mod tag is #FuFuBunnySlippers, or if the outcome means I'm not a mod at all. It's dumb to label one party as trying to gain something from the other, it's a merger, we both stand to gain, that's why we're talking about it. It is also stupid to try and claim one as the superior, or more successful. If the point is to become one, why argue which out of two is better, when one could be best?

Drop the butthurt, people, on both sides. I don't care if Mod X is a meanie pants or Site Y has more users, we have a higher calling as site staff to put that shit aside and do our damn jobs, volunteer or not. Are you here to help the community, or yourself?

Let's get back on topic already. Some points.

- If needed new tags will be assigned for overlapping moderators or admins. One of the two will have to be the bigger horsefucker man, for instance, I'll give mine up and pick something else if I need to.

- The name is a minor issue right now, let's not argue about what sounds stupid, we can decide that later. Call it whatever you want.



Feel free to ask anything, I suppose. What does Ponychan want out of this?

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3771

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>>3770
As mod tags are concerned, it's a silly thing. If Starshine wants to be Pinkie Pie… Maybe we can both be Pinkie Pie and throw double the parties and prank people and then we can double up on baking the cupcakes and eating them!

Or, I do have an alternative tagin mind, should it come to this.

I don't at all agree on what Crimson pointed out. MLPchan is succesful as a site and a community and has people running it really well, in points maybe better than what we pull on ponychan.
And if I recall correctly it wasn't mlpchan staff that asked for this in se.
But I do have to say that we feel animosity in the way >>3699 pointed out. Threads on mlpchan and ponychan lately do show there lives a lot of disdain for ponychan's staff and ponychan as a community.
As I said many times before, a merger need to happen with a welcome and an alliance that people are willing to work together in. Not an idea to be a saviour of the fandom by setting Ponychan straight and "removing the autism out of the fandom".
I do want to be sure that as mods in the new team ponychan will no be dismissed easily and that ponychan has the right to remain its culture on the new site.

Bitchy!Gilda5Xqko 3772

The mod tag thing was a complete afterthought that only occured when I went to check which of your mods was who. It's obviously not a big deal, but if we were to merge, it's something that would need to be discussed, and I didn't want to forget to bring it up.

Crimson Risk !RISkQqf4EM 3773

File: 1372078030456.png (60.45 KB, 257x250, 130644193627.png)

>>3771
>I don't at all agree on what Crimson pointed out. MLPchan is successful as a site and a community and has people running it really well
I didn't intend to say that any of those things were untrue.


>>3770
>So I'm seeing a lot of interpersonal troubles holding us back, and not exactly a tangle of technical or community obstacles.

Most of the people involved in this discussion aren't technically adept people, so we don't understand what technical issues exist, much less how to discuss them. The community at large is not presently involved in this discussion, so of course you aren't seeing any big community obstacles being presented right away.

I was on topic. This was relevant, and maybe it was a chance to resolve something. Stop dismissing it as "just butthurt."

>What does Ponychan want out of this?

I have no idea how to answer such a broad question. What does MLPchan want out of this?

I do think maybe it could be a nice catalyst to get a lot of organizational changes done at once. I do crave more structure in some ways. But I also don't want to lose things that we have, including boards which are smaller, but still functional (to be evaluated), a name and domain that are easily remembered, and even synonymous with the fandom to some.

Neither site wants to be eaten by the other, and if we were going to do this, we should indeed do it fairly. However I feel like if Ponychan changed it's name, it's codebase/layout/features, and many of it's rules, it wouldn't exist anymore to a lot of people. I signed up to keep Ponychan safe, so I don't want to hand it up for absorption. Really, I'm surprised you guys don't want to use the name Ponychan. Many of you always wanted to be part of it, as both staff and community. I'd see that as reuniting, more than I would if we used a different name, and I think others would too. Neither site's name is without some negative association, there's no such thing as bad advertising, and with an integrated staff, things would be different, and you could show it.

I can agree that there may very well be positives to merging, but there's stuff to work through, including interpersonally. Not to even mention that merging itself would be a lengthy process as every little thing would need to be worked out, such as whether /collab/, /merch/ and /art are too slow or should be kept around as functionally unique places. We haven't even seen whether opening up /oat/ will work out yet. You're pretty much asking us to figure out how to streamline our boards. You can't rush this. To give it the attention it deserves, each would have to be deeply examined individually.
This post was edited by its author on .

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3774

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>>3773
Well, I personally would say "what's in a name". A name is a silly thing fought about a lot. But I admit that keeping one of the site's names might be symblically keeping the site itself in favour of the other.

The board structure might be evaluated on how people would respond to it. I do agree that we can't blindly format all the boards as mlpchan does it.

And when it comes to rules, yes. I think there's little difference between us (aside from /anon/, which we can not deny in the merger). But I would like to press that in a combined staff and ruleset we have to decide on what is suitable and what not together and within reason. We don't just abandon our own userbase in favour of the other. And as we represent our communities at this point, we need to be heard. Whether or not one site is structurally "weaker" to the other.

Cross Breeze!Q1IPegaSus 3775

File: 1372083520578.jpg (103.24 KB, 822x851, 1372041075629.jpg)

>>3773

For the record, I'm open to using Ponychan's name if that's what staff agree on.

Ideally, perhaps Ponychan's name, MLPchan's code, both sites can mix their features and layouts, and we open the rules a bit. Possibly, anyways.

As for what MLPchan wants, that would be something like NSFW on three boards, a streamlined number of overall boards, a board specifically for /anon/, to not run on Kusaba and get a new server, and equal representation.

We recently merged our own /chat/ and /oat/, and it looks like pchan is looking to do the same, so merging a lot of our shared boards isn't really that big of an issue. I'm confident we can find an answer to every board's situation, and in a reasonable time frame too.

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3776

File: 1372085815859.png (535 KB, 900x1152, 1371843505406.png)

>>3773
>We haven't even seen whether opening up /oat/ will work out yet.
Let's be honest, you've not even determined yet -if- you're going to do anything at all with /oat/, and this -current- iteration of the "what should we do with it?" (the fourth or fifth time it's come up in its existence) has gone on for months, with three separate polls, half a dozen /meta/ threads of hundreds of posts each, and weeks of discussion.

One thing this shows is that no one really has any idea what to do. Which is fine. There's no instruction manual for this. None of us is an expert. There does come a point however where some leadership needs to be shown and decisions need to be made, something which one of the things Ponychan can really use, I think you'd agree.

And really, some of the aspects of the merger idea would change what to do anyways. The issue was /oat/ was a sense that it was dying, that it was stagnant and no longer useful. Well, you're talking now about an infusion of new blood and a hypothetical event (a massive site merger) that would be heard around the fandom, the two largest pony imageboards in the world (and actually, from what I understand, two of the ten largest imageboards, period) becoming one. This is no small thing that will be talked about plenty and arouse the curiosity of many, and everyone from oldfags of the Ponychan and pony imageboard communities to people just getting into the fandom would be hearing about it. With something like that, you really can't know what's going to be the most perfect setup. You just make the choice you can and you take a leap of faith. When Ponychan started, it couldn't know how it should be set up first, or how it would evolve to adapt. But you take the chance, and put in the work after you do so to adapt accordingly.

http://maxcdn.zenpencils.com/comics/2013-06-18-mckenna.jpg

>>3775
>it looks like pchan is looking to do the same
The current (final?) poll there is to determine whether /oat/ should be "opened up", but will not make any changes to /chat/. Which I know some are not exactly fond of, these choices, as it essentially is "do we make /oat/ overlap 100% with /chat/ but do nothing with /chat/, or do we do nothing?" Just saying, I'm not really sure how that ended up being the choice. At some point you just stop with the miles of bureaucracy and make the rational choices.

Let me make an initial suggestion. It's been raised by more than a few Ponychan users lately, and has come up time and again. You have -nineteen boards- listed. That's.. a lot. And not all are functionally unique.
[ /site/ - /arch/ - /all/ ][ /pony/ - /oat/ - /chat/ - /anon/ ][ /fic/ - /rp/ - /fan/ - /art/ - /pic/ ][ /dis/ - /int/ ]
Now I'm not saying that's how it would or should end up, but simple rational analysis would show it not all -that- difficult to streamline by 25% or so (and possible more, really) without endless hand-wringing and anxiety. Ponychan once had decision-making, but the problem was it was often capricious and arbitrary and incommunicable. Now it's changed, but it's swung all the way to the other side out of regret for that, or out of fear of justifying people's negative impression based on that past. There's a balance that it doesn't have, and I say that knowing you probably don't disagree, and that it's a valid concern.

>I was on topic. This was relevant, and maybe it was a chance to resolve something.

I realize, and that's what personally I have no problem getting into that. (Though it seemed we'd gotten more or less to the end of the road of the discussion pretty quickly, albeit amicably.)

>>3774
All I would personally say is that the rulesets, aside from /anon/'s own particular unique structure, be simplified. Not necessarily changed, they are already rather similar, but not be so lengthy and be more concisely put. (Another thing I'm guessing people probably won't disagree with.)

>blindly format all the boards as mlpchan does it.

I took the time to speak to a lot of people, publicly and one on one, personally, myself, as admin, and see what they thought. Basically it was no different than what Ponychan is attempting to do, but instead of half a year of circular discussions all reaching the same inconclusive place, when it came clear that there was unsurety what to do, a decision was made, instead of endless narrowing polls to try to whittle down to the choice with the least possible drama and wash my hands of the responsibility by saying "well this is what they voted for, if it doesn't work it's not my fault." Really, this was a greatly flawed plan from the get go, since each poll changed the options and each one narrowed things to less and less major changes - which is what most people will always vote for. You need to talk to people as people, not as a mass of of numbers or voters lumped into two or three camps like Republicans and Democrats. That's my personal preference, or philosophical viewpoint, or whatever one would call it, on that.

>>3775
If we did this, what we would want is essentially this; a better imageboard software. Better coding (for all the defending of Kusaba and/or Ponychan's brand of it, which is definitely far different than regular Kusaba anyways, it still remains with major drawbacks - as Fen and Mithent are aware, Macil was just this week forwarded some questions about it based on something a user noticed, and after examining it Mac found several major security issues which he has forwarded on to Mithent for patching, which is not the first or even second time with just cursory examinations that Mac has discovered vulnerabilities or issues.) Allowing /anon/ to function as it currently does. Streamlining at least of a moderate amount (nineteen boards is just.. I don't think anyone disagrees it's gotten out of hand.) Things like a new server would probably be needed anyways, but that's something more for MithMac to determine what would be required and cost-effective. Appropriate representation. Ability for the site to actually have some leadership among the community to prevent some of what I've described above. These would be what we would 'want', and I would hope much of it is also agreeable to everyone else.

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3777

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>>3776
oh, sorry to clarify

I meant to say that we merge and just format our boards into mlpchan standard without any consideration.

not that mlpchan reformated the boards blindly itself.

I don't have an issue on mlpchan's idea of reforming its own board structure.

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3778

File: 1372090774342.png (106.45 KB, 323x379, 136810279056.png)

>>3776
> [ /site/ - /arch/ - /all/ ][ /pony/ - /oat/ - /chat/ - /anon/ ][ /fic/ - /rp/ - /fan/ - /art/ - /pic/ ][ /dis/ - /int/ ]
I don't mind this suggestion much.
Maybe find a solution for /irc/.
It's a useful channel to instantly contact a mod or an admin when an issue arises, given mods start using it. Technically not a bad thing, but admittedly slow so far.
On ponychan it's a separate board. Maybe there are ways to incorporate it as a link to an outside chatroom somewhere on the site. Given there's a good place to reserve chatrooms.

I see we lose /ooc/, which can be absorbed again into /rp/.
and /gala/….

well, we got to find a way to deal with serials appropriately. Make /chat/ the social board where all serials reside and people can still talk non-pony stuff if they like?

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3782

File: 1372102065822.jpg (113.46 KB, 761x617, tags.jpg)

>>3778
Re: IRC - Much like we did with >>>/test/, that could dealt with. We linked it in the FAQ and in the /site/ sticky right at the top, and could also be put in the "Contact Us" section in the hypothetical merger.

And yeah, basically.. in that hypothetical situation, the 4 major boards:
>pony - show stuff
>oat - random pony stuff
>anon - anything goes anon board
>chat - random chatting, social serials

site, arch, and all are necessary function boards. pony-oat-anon-chat being the big major boards. fic is a functional standalone community. art is a good functional purpose board. rp is a necessary community that needs its own space. fan is a good combination for merch-collab. pic is a decent resource; while boorus tend to be far more functional and all, pic may still be something people enjoy enough to stick around, I think. dis and int are a bit iffy, and are the two I think that would need what Crimson brought up, a closer analysis.

re: mod tags, cross already expressed his willingness to change his. mellow I'm sure would too (I think he was torn in the first place between vinyl scratch and rarity, but picked rarity to round out our mane 6.) that's two of the 5 overlapping tags taken care of already so far by mlpchan staff willing to change theirs.

Gotta run for a bit (and for the next day or two, I have an out-of-town thing to take care of. be back as soon as I can.)

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3784

File: 1372106558138.jpg (331.34 KB, 520x830, moddin.jpg)

>>3782
Starshine is a more seasoned Pinkie poster than I am.
So as I'm concerned, he can be !!PinkiePie.

I can finally get myself a reason to post this.

3786

>>3770
i feel, i just don't want Ponychan's community to be swamped by mlpchan's, either in terms of decision making via /meta/, or in terms of content.

3787

frankly, it almost feels like this is an inevitability though.

i would prefer this be done on skype, and the chatlogs be shared on both sites, if at all possible?

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3788

>>3786
I'm not sure I understand, if you could clarify for me.You said you don't feel Ponychan is "ready." Whether it is at the present or some time in the future, the same immersion/meshing would occur. Is there something you think is going to happen between now and whenever Ponychan would be 'ready' that would prevent it's community from being 'swamped?' Is it a matter of one side currently on an upswing and the other not, and you feel this gives too much leverage to one community?

As far as "decision making via /meta/", maybe that's a topic for another time. Decision making on /meta/ is not an experience most find enjoyable or want to be a part of. I think you'd find if you lurk around the way /site/ decisions, ideas and suggestions come about, that /meta/'s entire culture (as if a Site Issues board should have a culture in the first place) should simply be scrapped. If there's one part of Ponychan culture that should -not- carry over to a merger, it is /meta/ culture.

3789

>>3788
to be honest, Anthony, /meta/'s culture is the way it is in no small part because of some of the very moderators present in this discussion, who continue to reinforce that atmosphere on /meta/
The other half, of course, being those who come in as anons and vehemently disagree.

i have a feeling that, if we did merge, and we did keep meta, it would be entirely peaceful, as the culture of meta is one entirely dependent on conflict driven from those who hardly participate in the community at large… only to have those who do get dragged into the discussions after the fact.

i think Ponychan deserves a grace period. just a year, a year without peace or some group or thing trying to seize it.

A year of steady progress, stability, and growth, without the input of you or your staff on our meta, without the interference of a Zamoonda, without the ring of conflict.
This post was edited by its author on .

3791

pardon me for the side topic, but given my understanding of the structure as it stands, there will be two coding admins, macil and mithent, two community admins, then community mods and also coding mods?

am i understanding it right? or have i made some mistake again?

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3792

>>3789
That opinion is acknowledged.I'll simply say that time doesn't offer grace. Time only passes. More time, apart. What differences there are grow deeper, evolve farther. The competition - both between us and externally - continues. And there's nothing guaranteeing that time is graceful, and without conflict, and without some new or old Ponychan-brand™ drama arising.

I don't know if I like the implication that we have input on /meta/. I don't think anyone but Marcy and I even ever post there, and Marcy retired.

>>3791
From what it sounds like, there would be the coding administrators (usually on a website these are called SysAdmins), community administrators (or some other title) and mods (general.)

Anonymous 3793

>>3792
not a mod or anything, but if the site gets bigger would you be installing Janitors too?

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3794

>>3793
That would definitely have to rely on the need; both sites have so far found janitors not necessary, and adding mods a better option since janitors can only delete things; so adding a janitor can't really stop a raid or spam effectively.

Anonymous 3795

>>3794
kk, just wanted to ask

/lurk

3796

okay… thank you for explaining, Anthony.

Tom had a complaint about something i said with the "nod and obey" part of my first statement. That's not a poke whatsoever, i simply mean that your opinions are capable of being unified; this is something i see as being -positive-, not negative. Ponychan needs this pretty badly.

The thing is, i feel that you being so united, and us being so divided, the inevitable outcome is that you will make the decisions for the most party by simple majority.


i feel a bit more calm now than before. i think i can see the fruitfulness of this discussion.

3797

>>3793
>>3794
>>3795
We could make minimods (name pending), that have ban rights too, but are limited in their scope of input otherwise?

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3798

>>3797
Theoretically possible, or janitors with (mute) power to temp-ban until a full mod gets to the matter.

All technically possible if we ever want to explore that.

Bitchy!Gilda5Xqko 3799

4chan janitors appear to be able to delete posts/threads and simultaneously flag a deleted post for potential banning, at the discretion of a moderator. A good system, if you ask me.

3800

>>3799
if this is the case, i offer my agreement

3801

…maybe… instead of seeing it as more people to disagree and steamroll things…

the merger is making my family bigger… and giving more people to agree.

maybe… pony fun doesn't come from a store.

maybe… pony fun, means a little bit more…

3802

File: 1372119506002.jpg (36.2 KB, 624x774, shocked fluttershy 2.jpg)

…what if… by merging, i would be less cornered? what if having a bigger modstaff means… i don't have to be scapegoated or blamed or put in my place all the time?

3803

File: 1372119547996.jpg (141.29 KB, 1920x1080, Shocked fluttershy.jpg)

What if by merging, we could finally have a free /oat/? Or a free-er Ponychan, with less rules, and greater accountability?

Where ponies can be in peace, with each other?

3804

File: 1372119591386.jpg (41.18 KB, 727x662, Flutter neutral 2.jpg)

…i must ponder. excuse me.

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3805

File: 1372119624771.png (193.56 KB, 425x422, ----.png)

>>3803
I wouldn't hope for peace per say all the time

But I guess /oat/ can roam freely here

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3806

File: 1372120434740.png (195.41 KB, 376x400, and then there's that ahole.pn…)

>>3802
I think it's a mix of both
Larger gorup might neab more dissent on opinions and all, but also greater shared fault.

And with community admins, they do carry the blunt force of decisions.

as a mod, you give your perspective on things, as a community admin,you have to decide what to do and which idea to follow. But your decision also makes it easier to have the blame on you.

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3807

File: 1372164796101.png (38.55 KB, 600x300, AJ - ya'll.png)

>>3804
>>3803
>>3802
>>3801
I'm glad to hear that.

I'll be gone most of the day today and possibly not back until tomorrow.

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3813

>>3807
I'm back, but probably only for a little bit. I'll be back home for good tomorrow afternoon most likely.

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3829

File: 1372583786934.png (200.07 KB, 364x328, I'm to blame.png)

Sssssso

where do we stand now?
Do people think it's useful to talk?
Or do people feel this route is closed?

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3831

>>3829
Dunno.

I don't think anyone here is all that worked up about anything at the moment. Though from the outside looking in it does have the issue of being a complicated and/or awkward situation there.

Mithent stepping back is not all that surprising, he has life to deal with, wasn't really around for most of these discussions save for a few comments anyways. Fenolio stepping into a leadership role isn't a problem, I like and respect Fen. Orange 'returning' to manage the technical aspects since Mithent is not able to administer them isn't that earthshattering.

But there's no doubt that, being frank he's the most polarizing figure in either community and the amount of things happening at Ponychan over the last few months and up to now makes the situation seem tenuous. From Zam/aurria to /oat/-/chat/ and other restructuring discussions to Mithent/Orange/Fen to 2 mods taking retirement/breaks at the moment, we have to wonder how viable the discussion is. I don't think we're closed off to it by any means but we're unfortunately waiting to see what you guys are going to do with all that.

Artee!V1bM0d5Fdc 3832

File: 1372621176624.png (146.37 KB, 337x277, pinkie G3 shrug.PNG)

>>3831
Fenolio has arough analysis and idea about positions to consider in the merger.

so we can count on him to step forward probably

Fenolio!X.Layton0s 3833

File: 1372623386667.jpg (134.87 KB, 730x1095, 1362701258645.jpg)

>>3832
>>3831
Right now we're just building up mods again since we were down one guy even before the other two went AWOL.

The two ideal candidates that everybody agreed on 100% decided to fuck off for an indeterminate amount of time right before they were needed, so it's taking a bit of back and forth to agree on the other guys.

After thats done, we'd be in a proper position to decide about the merger.

We could start drawing up a neutral starting point now though if you want, to streamline things once it actually gets rolling again.

Anonthony!AppLeJAcK. 3834

>>3833
I guess that's up to you at this point.

We can't really know what, if any, effect your new staff members are going to have on the discussions, or the absence of those on break/retirement or Mithent & Orange's situations will have on ya'lls general perception of all this.

3845

File: 1372723608206.jpg (638.74 KB, 700x913, 78744 - artist-lizspit flying …)

Just putting it out there that I'm all for sitting down and talking this through to see what the possibly issues are that we might have, and that the two separate communities might have.

I'd really like to see this happen, so I'm willing to do my best on any issues that we would potentially need to resolve, as long as such talks and solutions can be found in a peaceful manner.

Macil!/5s/Techmk ## Admin 3846

Cross-linking for clarity and to sync this thread.
>>>/site/9672

Hopefully we can continue working together on inter-site things as we've had, but we're currently not considering moving forward with the merger plans.

Fenolio!X.Layton0s 3854

File: 1372768411774.gif (3.38 MB, 550x309, 266428__UNOPT__safe_oc_animate…)

>>3846
Disappointing but understandable.


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