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File: 1394847491734.png (171.69 KB, 964x829, say no to cadence.png)

Anticadenza Skybrook!8MDcALmdno 471950

Let's say money is no object. Would anyone want to retcon Cadence out of the story entirely?

471951

File: 1394847964751.png (188.98 KB, 1000x1000, 44a.png)

For what purpose?

Heavy Mole 471962

File: 1394848942197.jpg (7.88 KB, 213x237, lucy5.jpg)

Honestly, I'd rather retcon Discord post-RoH if I was given the choice.

Skybrook!8MDcALmdno 471991

File: 1394854102440.jpg (Spoiler Image,120.82 KB, 600x600, princess skyla toy.jpg)

>>471951

Well, I assume to keep it so Celestia and Luna are both the only alicorns. Possibly because she's the ponified version of some obscure British royalty. There's also the whole "Love conquers all is bad and you should feel bad for pushing it" thing. Getting rid of the whole Shining Armor / Cadence thing would resolve inconsistencies in Twilight's character, such as how she suddenly got a new best friend who is also her brother. The statement "Every little girl wants to be a princess" would lose credence, as well as the attitude that MLP is a show designed for little girls only.

I'm sure you'd appreciate getting rid of something that made people think you were a retard or a pedophile. Yes I know they would still be out there yelling about it, but without Cadence the only support they would have to their argument is Applejack's stupid pink car. I certainly would welcome the show's return to emphasis on the importance of friendship, and not falling back to the old tired schpiel about how life is all about a single exclusive relationship.

As rushed as it was Twilight earned her godhood, so to speak. She went through the whole spirit journey thing and actually proved her worth and competence. Cadence being shoehorned in greatly destroys this moment of triumph for Twilight. She's no longer something precious and amazing, but now just another alicorn.

Let's see, other reasons… Sombra might be able to get more than two words in before he's destroyed. Pink Celestia would continue to be a mark of shame, and not a concept Hasbro is actually pursuing, spewing spaghetti in every direction as theey do so. The fact that ponies have traditional weddings followed by godawful pop songs would not be established canon. Seriously what was up with that song? It was like they felt dirty for producing that episode and just made the song as terrible and vapid as possible out of resentment.

Princess Skyla wouldn't exist…

Anonymous 472001

Fuck. Yes.

Skybrook!8MDcALmdno 472055

File: 1394868224276.jpg (262 KB, 1375x773, how nice to see you.jpg)

>>471962

I think Discord could have been done better, but not sure what retconning him would accomplish. Less John de Lancie? They could have done without the Ka hypno eyes.

Silver Strength!TwiDasH7n2 472190

File: 1394885527050.jpeg (1.22 MB, 1920x1080, tfw big scary crystal throne …)

The Person Who Never Posts As Fluttershy 472192

File: 1394898030927.jpg (42.67 KB, 500x367, tumblr_mfcti9QXhM1rqvvxno1_500…)

No, I hate retcons.

Also we don't really see her that often and it's not as big a deal now that we have Alicorn ascension.

Skybrook!8MDcALmdno 472210

File: 1394912095054.png (529.58 KB, 1347x573, season 5.png)

>>472192

I suppose it's to be expected, but I didn't ask if anyone didn't want Cadence to be retconned. There's an obvious massive majority who don't. In fact there's probably more who don't then turn around and say alicorn Twilight should be retconned, than those who do want Cadence to be retconned. It's sort of puzzling me as to why Cadence gets a pass, but here we are.

472211

File: 1394912144137.png (264.81 KB, 568x528, Weeeell.PNG)

>>471950
No. I like Cadence. She gets to stay.

I'd retcon Flash Sentry though…

472212

File: 1394912321997.png (265.68 KB, 608x541, heythere.png)

>>471991
>As rushed as it was Twilight earned her godhood, so to speak. She went through the whole spirit journey thing and actually proved her worth and competence. Cadence being shoehorned in greatly destroys this moment of triumph for Twilight. She's no longer something precious and amazing, but now just another alicorn.

Read a book. Cadence wasn't born an Alicorn either. She's Peg.

Heavy Mole 472214

File: 1394912923846.jpg (48.81 KB, 500x508, lucy303.jpg)

>>472055
Discord was a great villain for this universe. If I had my druthers, I'd not bring him back if all that was going to be done is tarnish his character with poor episodes just for the sake of having a John de Lancie appearance.

Cadence was never a great character to begin with, so her presence is pretty innocuous to me. The episodes she appears in are never about her.

Skybrook!8MDcALmdno 472215

File: 1394913355966.png (233.84 KB, 640x360, spike is the fifth princess.pn…)

>>472212

Right, off-camera, off-stage, out of scene. That book thing itself retconned Cadence's ascension anyway, when people were upset how Cadence appears out of nowhere. It's a bit different than seeing every single friendship lesson Twilight ever learns.

And again, I wasn't asking who likes Cadence. It's great that you do. Just like everyone else.

Anonymous 472263

Neither SA nor Cadence have personalities, they're just blandly "nice" scenery/plot devices. Their sudden introduction sucked too. And there should never have been more than two alicorns. Now, all that could've been fixed way back when, but there's no way to recover that fumble after the fact, so forgetting that they ever existed would be preferable. Not that it'll ever happen, I'm just answering OP.

Twilight should never have done that ascension thing either. Yes yes, I know what Faust's plans for her were, those plans sucked too.

Not that any of it matters now. The show is a caricature of what it was and could've been, and really isn't even worth the effort I put into this post.

>>472211
What do you like about her? Not being sarcastic, I honestly don't get what people see in her.

Silver Strength!TwiDasH7n2 472264

File: 1394928052995.jpg (137.63 KB, 900x1382, bullshit Twilight-tier prettyf…)

>>472211
>I'd retcon Flash Sentry though…
Retcon him to be poor, and give him a goofy younger brother that he raised and defended in the gutter. Take away that sports car and make him a sports STAR.

Ditch the cheesy guitar for sweet FIRE SKILLZ. Cut the niceguy thing so he's bitchy and aloof. Perfect love interest.

472266

File: 1394928918112.png (401.74 KB, 843x583, applesweetie5.png)

O..OP told me I shouldn't be here. I shouldn't be talking to your two. He only wants people who don't like Cadence. You're going to get me in trouble.

>>472263
Again, the book. I like how she's an orphan and a pegasus and how she fought a big villain on her own and then had a Twilight ascension. That's a cool character. She's not my favorite or anything, but I'm not going to pick on her either.

Plus, I really like the wedding episodes. Well, we need Cadence for those, because a real mane character getting married destroys the fandom. If we retcon Cadence, we loss the cool song and villains and that cool fight with the changelings. Who else was going to get married?

>>472264
Now there's a character who adds nothing. At least Cadence has done stuff. She's beat three big villains. Flash has no purpose other than being eye candy. You could completely remove him from continuity and have no effect on anyone. I say down with this literal horsefucker.

Silver Strength!TwiDasH7n2 472267

File: 1394929048429.png (432.28 KB, 1280x1024, Rainbow wedding.png)

>>472266
>a real mane character getting married destroys the fandom.

472281

File: 1394932242792.png (201.95 KB, 605x654, sweetie77.png)

>>472267
Can you imagine the backlash for that one?

Anonymous 472391

File: 1394956377000.jpg (109.37 KB, 500x666, tumblr_m2we02mFIl1rr0ge0o1_500…)

>>472266
Hmm. I've stuck to the show only, partly because I tend to lean toward stuff outside the show to be somewhere between questionably canon to outright non-canon*, and partly because my interest in absorbing everything FiM has waned considerably. I appreciate the answer though, I don't think I'd heard anything from the book 'til now.

The wedding finale I'm really mixed on. Viewed on its own merits alone, it was pretty fucking awesome. Taking into account the whole series up 'til then though, it's a clusterfuck of stupid forced marketing BS. As to who else could've taken the place of SA and Cadence, there are about a metric gorillion secondary and background characters in the show which could've been used instead. Lyra and Bonbon would've been amusing.


*Same with just about every franchise really. Star Wars has a shitton of comics and books and such that reside in their own little parallel universes apart from the movies, for instance. Then again, I'm not even sure I accept what the crapfest which episodes I-III turned out to be as canon either. THANKS LUCAS! D:<

Ghosties!zGiggle1Ws 472502

File: 1395028842129.png (293.24 KB, 641x347, green is not a creative color.…)

Would I rather Cadence have never been in the canon? Yes. Would I retcon her out? No.

Anonymous 472585

>>471950
Nah, I have no problem with Cadance. She's boring, sure, but she doesn't hurt anything by being around.

Anonymous 472598

>>472585
>she doesn't hurt anything by being around.
Nothing but the previously established mythos. And the earlier premise that girls might want to aspire to something other than a princess and/or good little wifey.

Dashbrown 472602

File: 1395156558754.png (133.27 KB, 900x835, dashie66.png)

>>472598
What mythos did she hurt? Fan mythos? Because she doesn't seem to have contradicted anything in the show to me.

Silver Strength!TwiDasH7n2 472604

File: 1395157308530.png (489.43 KB, 900x700, mmm Prince Cadence.png)

>>472598
She rules a city-state. Not exactly a subordinate role. Shining Armor is her 'good little hubby'!

Anonymous 472607

>>472602
>YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE YOUR OPINION IS DIFFERENT FROM MINE LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!
OK, whatever pal. You're not interested in hearing anyone else, so I won't waste my time.

>>472604
They're both useless nothings. But remember back when the non-stop barrage of wedding promotions was going on? And hell, the songs even. Her (not even "their") special day, marriage is what every little girl dreams of, yadda yadda. And before you start spouting tumblr SJW accusations, I'm not into that shit at all. It was just a sad 180 from the show's original direction to flogging the whole '50s family values BS.

Silver Strength!TwiDasH7n2 472609

File: 1395163175222.jpeg (791.36 KB, 1400x990, Daring Do marries Auhizotl, wh…)

>>472607
>Her (not even "their") special day
Oh. That is pretty gross.

With the "marriage is what every little girl dreams of" angle, you can at least offer "we're focusing on the girls since they're our audience; e-every little boy totally dreams of marriage too" as an excuse. But ACW buys very much into the 'the wedding is for the bride, not the groom' angle. Yuck.

Maybe we need a corresponding two-parter at the bachelor party or the honeymoon. For, you know. Balance.

Anonymous 472645

>>472609
I think part of the contention comes from differing perspectives on their place specifically in the show as opposed to where they originated in the creative process. Taken solely as characters without external reference, SA and Cadence are…well, from my viewpoint anyway they're harmlessly bland, though as Sweetie pointed out above they're probably more interesting in the printed media. On the other hand, they're also indicative of the increased corporate influence; since I connect them to that change, they're worse than harmless from my point of view.

They honestly could've made it work in the show if things'd been planned out better. Imagine if they–or at the very least SA–had been introduced earlier. Establish that TS has a brother, have her at least mention visiting this supposed BBBFF that she can't live without on her various trips to Canterlot. See him and Cadence grow closer as a couple over time, then finally bring the wedding announcement. Not only does that eliminate the important-characters-out-of-fucking-nowhere, it also puts more focus on the reason for the marriage instead of going straight to the money shot…and, I'd hope, show that it was something special for them both, as well as give us the necessary foundation to give a damn that they're taking that step. None of this would even require much focus, just a few glimpses here and there along the way. I'd also say to get rid of that alicorn princess BS, but that involves tackling the clusterfuck that is the Crystal Empire and I've already typed enough for now.

Scootapuff!saU4Tsd4dU 472647

I was a hundred times more sold on Maud and Pinkie loving each other as siblings than I ever have been on Twi and Shining, and that was without the benefit of a song montage and reprise.

Rambling!Rose//pzOM 472791

File: 1395348464097.png (97.58 KB, 900x756, 34389__safe_alicorn_roseluck_p…)

What story? Without Our Dear Cadenza there would be no wedding. Not that I would object much to that. If you ask if I'd rather that episode never came out? Possibly, but there are others I'd prefer to remove first. Cadence herself as a character was fine, even if a bit flat. Just make her into a unicorn princess, some lesser noble, possibly, and either change Twilight's story to incorporate Shiny and Cadence before the wedding episode or have them be someponies completely unrelated to the cast and weave the story around that.

But… I'm thinking of this as if the episodes hadn't been aired yet. Retconning? No. That's like giving a middle finger to continuity, even if it is to fix fuck-ups. It's happened, it's canon, it sucks.

I never had any issues with Cadence herself, just what she represented and what she did. Same with Shiny. They were both rather boring, yeah, but that's fine. Cadence was a friend of Twilight, a pony who never had any friends and didn't know what friendship was. Shining Armour was the BBBestFriendForever of that same friendless pony and an important figure in her life. That sort of takes the rug from under Twi's origin story, imo, and makes her befriending the rest of the M6 a lot less meaningful.

Cadence being an alicorn princess who just happened to babysit Twilight before she became Celestia's student and all that for no good reason also wrecked the idea of two goddess-like alicorn rulers who have lived on for millenia. Introducing a new alicorn character out of nowhere makes Celestia and Luna a lot less special, and makes one wonder why there aren't more alicorns around. This has never been adequately explained. For the same reason I object to Twilight's ascension, especially with how poorly it was justified. Feel free to shout "muh fanon!" if you will, I just feel it really takes away from the world for no good reason.

Retconning Our Dear Cadenza away doesn't take all that away.

Anonymous 472804

File: 1395356449262.png (781.15 KB, 1600x1360, 93220_-_artist_equestria-preva…)

>>472791
>Without Our Dear Cadenza there would be no wedding.

Silver Strength!TwiDasH7n2 472805

File: 1395358018072.png (129.21 KB, 418x415, Scrunchy Rumble.png)

>>472791
>That sort of takes the rug from under Twi's origin story, imo, and makes her befriending the rest of the M6 a lot less meaningful.
Shining and Cadence are significantly older figures who bore some responsibility for Twilight. Not unlike Twilight to Spike. Very different relationship from her mane six friendships.

If Twilight were particularly close with her parents, would you say that invalidates "I used to wonder what friendship could be?"

Anonymous 472808

>>472791
>for no good reason also wrecked the idea of two goddess-like alicorn rulers who have lived on for millenia.
Exactly. It makes no fucking sense given what we knew up 'til that point, just pure marketing BS. The wedding was the official shark moment for me.

Rambling!Rose//pzOM 472829

File: 1395393083923.gif (235.63 KB, 650x365, 544302__safe_solo_animated_edi…)

>>472804
The wedding of Fancy Pants and Fleur certainly doesn't sound like as huge a deal as a princess wedding does. Everypony was supposed to be too distracted by the princess wedding to notice the changeling invasion. I don't think it would have worked with lesser characters.

>>472805
Obviously not, parents are parents, not friends. She also has never called her parents her friends while she has called Cadence one.

I do admit this isn't the perfect argument and I don't think I can completely convince anyone it invalidates "I used to wonder what friendship could be". However, I do feel it significantly lessens the impact of Twilight actually making friends which I feel is supposed to be an important turning point in her life. It might not be technically wrong but it feels wrong.

Also I'd like to point out the scene where Shining saw Twilight off when she left for Ponyville. It certainly ties this nicely to this thread's topic, retcons…

>>472808
Yup. I wouldn't say it directly contradicts anything previously established, mostly because they never did much with Luna and Celestia, but we certainly were led to believe they were the only two. Also the whole night and day thing really only works with two alicorns. I might have been okay with Cadence being an alicorn had they bothered to explain alicorns to us, give some exposition or anything. But no, so far we have absolutely nothing.

Anonymous 472833

File: 1395407966748.jpg (6.76 KB, 320x180, plot_of_doom.jpg)

>>472829
>wedding
Maybe. Rich folk can throw a shindig too. But whatever, it's not worth going to pedantic detail over. I'm sure with enough thought, a completely non-wedding event could've worked too.

>brother, friendship

That aspect doesn't bother me so much. She was able to bond with the select few she pretty much had forced on her (family, foalsitter), but not with anyone she could escape from (eg, her reaction to the ponies inviting her to a party in the very first episode). Still makes her pretty insular. It's the BBBFF crap that doesn't settle with me after two years of not even a mention.

>everyone wants to be a fucking alicorn

Enough was established to make them special, even worshipped (eg, Dashie to Derpy: "For the love of Celestia, just sit there and do nothing!"). And every reason to believe they were the only two.

Anonymous 472836

>>471950
Not entirely, no, but a demotion would be good. A unicorn duchess, perhaps.

Silver Strength!TwiDasH7n2 472838

File: 1395417924640.png (293.43 KB, 1046x311, Luna window snow.png)

>>472829
What if it were LUNA'S WEDDING

Rambling!Rose//pzOM 472839

File: 1395418205804.png (177.65 KB, 800x886, 291343__safe_solo_dress_roselu…)

>>472833
>wedding
Agreed, with enough thought other events could have worked. …with enough thought this event could have worked way better, as well.

>"For the love of Celestia"

Good point, that. Also "with Celestia as my witness". And yeah, I do agree.

>Twi and Shiny

True, that does make sense when you put it like that. Mayhaps I'm reaching a bit there. The whole BBBFF thing is a bit… odd, for sure. They were trying to sell it way too hard despite no mentions before. Had there been pictures like with Maud or a mention here or there I could have bought it. It's a shame there seemed to be no planning at all.

>>472838
!!
Umm, sure, that would probably work as a distraction, too. Who'd she be marrying? I do believe Pip is a bit too young… Please don't say Shining Armour.

Anonymous 472841

File: 1395423988283.gif (497.36 KB, 2000x1250, princess_luna_lip_bite_2_by_da…)

>>472838
Gasp! Fan outrage!

>>472839
>Mayhaps I'm reaching a bit there.
Sometimes I'll react to something like that BBBFF deal and not really be sure why right away. It can take some pondering and review to get to the root of why something seemed so wrong (or so perfectly right!). Maybe you're still working out your reactions.

>Who'd she be marrying?

YOU!

Rambling!Rose//pzOM 472843

File: 1395431188563.png (370.85 KB, 2419x3238, rose_by_anbolanos91-d4wk6qf.pn…)

>>472841
How scandalous!

>not yet figured out what exactly is bothering me

That would be… unusual, though possible. I know I had that experience with Mare-Do-Well where I felt bad about it after initial viewing and only later realized all the issues I had with it.

With this episode I do still think Twilight having a brother she bonded with, even without all the BBBFF crap, would have felt wrong to me by lessening that whole impact of making friends even though you have a point in that it's not as big a deal as I might think. I hadn't bothered to consider how much Cadence and Shiny might actually count for, since I was satisfied with my earlier judgment and just never went further with that.

In general, though, you are certainly correct. It can take a while to really figure out why I'm reacting the way I am.

Anonymous 472878

File: 1395449532799.jpg (1.33 MB, 1920x1265, wishes_on_stars_are_her_jurisd…)

>>472843
Well if you don't want her, I suppose I could be convinced to take your place…for the sake of the show, of course. Sacrifice for princess and country and all that, wotwot.

>2014

>still seeing BBBFFs as weakening the triumph of friendship
And that's the marvelous thing about opinions: Two people can have differing ones on the same topic without either needing to be wrong. Perhaps our respective life experiences cause us to view familial bonds in completely different ways. In the bigger picture view, we can at least agree that the introduction of SA and Cadence was riddled with various problems.

Skybrook!8MDcALmdno 472935

File: 1395516763239.png (40.4 KB, 300x169, 300px-Maud_holding_sedimentary…)

>>472647

Woah yeah. Maud got more foreshadowing than Shining Armor. How did this happen??

Rambling!Rose//pzOM 472937

File: 1395519052957.png (347.9 KB, 1280x720, minerals, son.png)

>>472878
I never said I don't!~

>opinions

Quite right.

>different experiences, different viewpoints

You know, you probably are right about that. It's not like I don't even see your point of view, I just feel it could have been better.

Yes, that we can certainly agree on. Me not feeling right about friendless Twi having a brother is pretty much just a subjective problem and not honestly as big a deal as how he and Cadence were introduced.

>>472935
I know, right? Maybe they learned, or just had more time to plan for it or something.


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