/pony/ - The Show

If you lose to G1 ponies, you're pretty well fucked against G4. They're a lot sharper.

That said if the villain gets a corresponding ability bump, of course they're going to pose a heckuva threat.

Tirek's a bad example really. One good kick could have turned Megan into a stain on the wall, but he just used the dark rainbow and sat there. Some of the G1 villains could still pose a threat I think, like Grogar has his version of the Alicorn Amulet, but also a huge city summoned with him that's like nega-Crystal-Empire, and he's actually super good at magic so he can mess with people's spells and stuff instead of just using brute force like Trixie did. The only reason G1 beat him was because they rung a bell. That was literally all they did. And Smooze would be particularly deadly to G4. At least G1 ponies didn't have their magic literally derived from friendship and harmony. "Crunch the Rockdog" wasn't defeated by G1 ponies either, just pacified once his creator managed to instill compassion in him literally by shooting a shard of crystal into his chest. Come to think on it ponies didn't really do much of anything other than go to said creator and say "Hey you big dumb rock your dog got loose."

Other villains like Princess Porcina wouldn't last 2 minutes. "Oh no you turned all the buildings to glass. Oh no you turned all the ponies to glass! Oh wait, making them glass just pissed them off. Any last words?"

All I know is that the G1 movie villain and his Rainbow of Darkness was metal as fuck, and the coolest villain in the entire MLP franchise.

i have a feeling sombra was the writers attempt at making tirek

>>471291
b-but Sombra is a 2edgy OC and Tirek is soooo coool because he's a ridiculous tryhard demon centaur
#NostalgiaOrGTFO
#BringBackThe80s
#FiMRuinedEverything

Take anything you want, if it's not resistant to magic Twilight turns it into an orange.

I don't really know all those G1 villains you mentioned, so I can't really say much about them. Smooze I did see, as well as Tirek. Tirek, eh, I guess it depends on what he can actually do. That rainbow of darkness stuff sure seemed strong, but we really have no idea how it compares to this generation of ponies or the Elements, not to even mention Luna and Celestia or the Crystal Heart which obliterated Sombra completely. Or Discord, assuming he took offense to new folks coming to mess around his turf.

Smooze, though. Nothing can stop the Smooze.

On a serious note, they wouldn't fare any better than the newer antagonists, since the point of them is simply to be defeated by our pony overlords. Changelings as a concept is seriously rather terrifying, and if they weren't making it a two episode deal with idiotic leaders they could have been used for so much more. If Tirek or Smooze or whoever else returned they would very likely get the same treatment.

I'm going to repost my analysis on Tirek, as well as give an analysis on the Smooze and Grogar.

Tirek is cold, cunning, and calculating. He didn't put himself in the front lines in G1, he had an unwitting servant and his own monsters work for him. It was only a simple miscalculation and a bit of overconfidence that killed him.
If Tirek replaced Nightmare Moon in the two part episode, and the mane 6 went to confront Tirek in the same way they confronted Nightmare Moon, he would have won. Tirek has no time for games, unlike Nightmare Moon who toyed with the mane 6 until the very end. Her overconfidence was ultimately her downfall. Tirek wouldn't have given Twilight the chance to figure out how to awaken the elements. Infact, he probably would have used her in the ritual to bring about the Night That Never Ends.
If Tirek were introduced now? He would certainly lose, but he still would be a very formidable opponent to the mane 6. His ability to turn wildlife into demons hellbent on destruction would do more than function as a distraction. He isn't stupid enough to throw himself in front of the mane 6 with a sign on his chest saying "Let me taste the rainbow".

>>471436
Prior to the Breezies being reintroduced, I had believed, and so did a few others, that the Changelings were the FiM analog to the Flutter Ponies of G1.
Under that condition, a very interesting plot opens up when the Smooze is reintroduced. Twilight Sparkle must confront and beg for Queen Chrysalis's aid in removing the Smooze from Equestria. The queen would obviously not agree to it, and probably ravish in the fact that her most hated enemies are at her mercy. Of course, this might have opened up the possibility for another reformed villain.
Of course, with the Breezies back, and assuming they're the G4 analog to the G1 Flutter Ponies, the Smooze would be a minor threat.

>>471437
Of course, the most likely villain to succeed in a world of magical pastel horses is the emperor which even magic itself obeys.
In G1, Grogar was so powerful an archmage that he could even manipulate and nullify the magic of others. With how effortlessly he wields his own arcane might, and how he is effectively immune to almost all forms of magic himself, Grogar would claim the crowns of Equestria in one fell swoop. All ponies would bow to him.
It also opens a beautiful conflict with Twilight herself. How would The Princess of Magic handle the scenario? The most powerful archmage/necromancer/lich in all of existence stands before her, while her own magic betrays her.
The power of friendship, and the Elements of Harmony betray her. All of it simply refuses to respond to her whims. Think of how helpless she'd be!
Ah, but as the Element and Princess of Magic, I wouldn't doubt that she'd discover the loophole in Grogar's dominion over magic.

While I still prefer Tirek over Grogar as the top villain of the franchise, Grogar is a more appropriate villain to pit against Twilight Sparkle.

>>471291
Also, I suspect that Sombra was an attempt at remaking Grogar.
The plotlines of Return of Tambelon are similar, and both characters wield some pretty hefty magic. Sombra even used a spell to stop Shining from using magic.
Of course, Sombra is nowhere near as powerful as Grogar. Grogar captured every unicorn of Dream Valley before Tambelon returned from the Realm of Darkness. Sombra just hung around and watched things happen.

>>471438
You know how it'd go.
"Even without magic, friendship prevails."

>>471443
I don't want them to win, I just want them to lose gracefully.
I also want Twilight to face Grogar alone. I know it goes against show's dynamic, but Twilight needs it.

>>471592
>I want them to lose gracefully
And therein lies the problem. Pretty much every single villain so far in G4 has fallen not in spite of, but because of themselves to some extent. To me it seems to simply be the way the show is written by the crew. Because of that I find it unlikely any villain, even if brought back from the past, would lose gracefully. Well, I guess that depends on what exactly you mean by that, but still. For better villains and whatnot I'd direct you to the magical world of fanfiction~

For facing him alone, do you mean that she should defeat him alone, as well? If not, I could see the M6 falling behind one by one, tackling whatever problem they are facing, urging Twi to move along because they are in a hurry. Then they could catch up just when Twi is about to be defeated or whatever if you don't necessarily have to have Twi win alone. You'd still be able to do a showdown of some sort. Yes, I love that particular type of thing, whether the rest catch up at the end or not. Self-sacrifice and the rest having to move on despite that. Strong stuff, though not necessarily right for this show the way I'm thinking.

>"Princess of Magic? Bah, you might have put up a fight but are hardly worth the title, especially with your magic gone. Bow before me and beg for your life!"
>"I don't need my magic to defeat you; I have something far more powerful than that: my friends!"
>commence ass-kicking / rainbow powers
Because come on, Friendship is Magic~

If you wanted Twi to defeat him alone, as well, yeah. It kinda does go against the dynamic and the whole Friendship is Magic thing, though Twi being a princess would make it more likely, as does them losing the Elements. She is the most special one even moreso than she was before. Still wouldn't be holding out hope for that, though, even if it could make for an interesting story.

As for the analyses on Tirek and pals, I guess the problem there is that a smart villain is just a hard thing to deal with, especially in a format such as this. There's only so much you can do in twenty or fourty minutes, so introducing a villain, making it clear they are competent (and still allow the heroes to be able to find a way to defeat him while maintaining the illusion of the villain being powerful) and then having the heroes come up with that way of defeating them and doing the deed, as well as the post-combat happytimes… It would need way longer than a few episodes in my mind to do a story like that justice. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see that myself and lament the villains being stupid in this show, but I don't think it is something I should expect from this show. One can always dream, though…

>>471596
>I guess the problem there is that a smart villain is just a hard thing to deal with
It's nigh-on impossible to beat a villain that's smarter than you, powerful enough to beat you in a cage match, and has a plan. To make that scenario winnable, you pretty much have to make the bad guy do something astoundingly stupid.

Overconfidence is a common go-to. And with it, a burning desire for the hero to see the villain triumph, understand the villain's brilliance and awesomeness and yadda yadda yadda.

Contrast that with, say, a Chrysalis who sends Changeling infiltrators to assassinate all six elements plus the captain of the guard simultaneously in their sleep. Not much of a story there.

>>471597
Yeah, that's what I was trying to go for but, you know, rambling and all that. Overconfidence can work, yeah, and if the villain is indeed smarter, stronger and better prepared than you it can almost sound probable. I suppose that is what we were supposed to take away from Chrysalis but it didn't work out that way for me.

The mistake doesn't necessarily have to seem astoundingly stupid, though. Make it so a slightest thing goes wrong and it activates a chain reaction that leads to their defeat. For bonus points make it so it's not the villain themselves that messes things up but an underling or just a lucky coincidence, though you'd have to be careful it doesn't come off as too convoluted. Overconfidence, if sold well, isn't necessarily that stupid. In fact, thinking about it, if it weren't for that bloody power of love out of nowhere but the M6 just coming up with something to defeat Chrysalis while she was gloating I'd have been way happier with it. Hmm… It's fun realizing new things like this~

>Contrast that with, say, a Chrysalis who sends Changeling infiltrators to assassinate all six elements plus the captain of the guard simultaneously in their sleep. Not much of a story there.
I beg to differ! That would be an awesome start for a story, though due to the subject matter probably better suited for fanfics. Have something tip the heroes off or have the assassins wake them up or somesuch, something that is out of Chrysalis' control, and you have a game of cat and mouse and a strong hook to start your story with, especially if the changelings were new characters, or at least new to the main characters. I'd read that story~

>>471596
I do want Twilight to defeat him alone. To me it just seems like it has to be that way. Grogar is everything Twilight would become if it all goes wrong. Powerful, intelligent, clawing to the top from literally nothing. In command. In control.
I just see the conflict between those two as Twilight Sparkle defeating her own shadow.

I will say that Grogar WAS overconfident though. He was eager to celebrate his victories when he succeeded in capturing the ponies. It wasn't the only thing that lead to his downfall, but it did contribute to it. He left too many variables unchecked, but I don't think he'd make the same mistake twice. After all, the third time's the charm, right?

I already understand that these characters won't appear in FiM. Why? Because they had G4 analogs already. Nightmare Moon replaced Tirek, and Sombra replaced Grogar. Hasbro vaulted G1. They own it, but they'd rather have DHX work with more recent IP and let G1 be forgotten.

Though I like to think G1 and G4 do share the same universe, just the events of each are spread far enough apart that they're both irrelevant to each other. Or G1 hasn't happened yet. Take your pick.

>>471672
Dream Valley is probably some segregated butthole corner of the globe that Celestia can't be arsed to treat with.

>>471734
So that's where Ahuizotl hangs out.

>>471764
It all makes sense now!

>>471734
>Dream Valley is probably some segregated butthole corner of the globe that Celestia can't be arsed to treat with.
That's exactly what it is. The river valley near the Old Castle. The valley wherein the Three Tribe's Leaders settled their differences and founded Equestria.

ummm

Scorpan was legit, but aside from that I can't see any G1 villains posing a modicum of a threat.

G1 villains were (as pointed out in the second post) beaten by G1 pones. Watch an episode or two to see how lame that is.

Season one, episode two? The delicate, ladylike fashionista up and kicks a manticore in the face… and SMILES.

Equestrians fight. They have no choice. They live on a Death World and are building a civilization.

G1 pones won't leave cages that are left open if there is someone outside. They also live on a Death World (G1 villains, for what I watched were legitimately scary, pity the heroes couldn't match them) but somehow survive via author fiat.