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Anonymous 3262324

Whenever somebody criticizes a song as being "not art", people often respond with hostility. I've seen this on /mu/ sometimes. This idea that what constitutes art isn't up for debate, all music is art by default. But isn't this completely fucking stupid? What constitutes art is not objective since we don't actually know what art is.

Oxford dictionary definition of art: "The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power".

>Beauty

This is subjective

>Emotional power

This is also subjective

What if I find beauty or emotional power in Nicki Minaj's music? The definition of art has subjective criteria so nothing is objectively "art"

Snowbell!MbICrazyYs 3262348

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If you really want to nitpick the only way to describe any word is with other words. Meaning that every verbal argument is circular reasoning. Therefore anything not stated mathematically is automatically wrong. Including this one.

Anonymous 3262352

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3262361

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>>3262348
This is why I only deal in hypothetical mathematics and just dress it up with words.

Heavy Mole 3262379

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>>3262348
Ah, but every mathematically powerful system is capable of a formulation which is true but unprovable, showing that mathematics, like verbal language, is incomplete.

3262382

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>>3262379
Except in hypothetical mathematics.

Heavy Mole 3262388

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>>3262382
What is 'hypothetical mathematics'?

Eliza!zIANOLEeck 3262454

I'm not sure what you're point is, you're saying that anything can be art because it's subjective, so then when someone gets upset when someone calls something not art, it's bad? That seems to be contradicting.

OP 3262459

>>3262454

Okay I'm gonna be real honest, I copied and pasted the whole thing from /mu/.

But I think the point is, people like to criticize things like: "Pmf! Nicki Minaj? That's not ART. I listen to REAL art music like classical and jazz" or something like that.

People use art as a synonym for "good" yet they can't even explain what art is or what makes it good.

So the only solution is to agree that all music is art by default and that it being art is irrelevant to it's quality, which of course leads to the whole subjectivity versus objectivity in quality and taste.

Eliza!zIANOLEeck 3262461

>>3262459
oh
yeah i agree with that

Snowbell!MbICrazyYs 3262521

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>>3262459

Classical music can be pretty damn artsy though.

!oDoctum.AQ 3263143

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The definition explicitly states that art is a creative expression that is to be appreciated for its beauty or emotional power; it is not saying that it needs to have a quantifiable level of these things. Pop music is as much art as classical. The only real difference is in which social groups consider them worthy of their time; the social standing of the art and artist in their or others' environment.

I.e someone making music exclusively with bathroom appliances might be hailed as 'daring' and 'satirical' by one group of critics, while another think he's being a tosser.

Regardless of opinion it remains art, the qualities of it being art is subjective; not its genre.



If you want an actual art debate you can pose the question: "Is a commercial creation, such as a big Hollywood action movie created on a pre-existing brand, art just as much as a creation that is not motivated by financial gain?"
Because on one hand that means 'Django Unchained' (2012) is art, but 'The Theory of Everything' (2014) is not. Debateable but a premise. On the other hand 'Star Wars: A New Hope' is art, but 'Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back' and 'Star Wars: Return Of The Jedi' are not.
At least that's a debate with merit to it.

TL;DR- Your opinion of an art piece does not dictate its status as art.
Also saying we "don't know what art is" is fucking dumb; read a book.

!oDoctum.AQ 3263144

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>>3262459
Maybe I should read threads before making lengthy posts taking the bait...


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