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File: 1372106655328.jpg (134.46 KB, 960x768, Worldsingers.jpg)

Worldsingers Rebooted 6516

#Collaboration

Old Thread: >>>/rp/447178

Our Base of Operations: http://worldsingers.wikia.com/wiki/Worldsingers_Wiki

Welcome to WorldCorp, your one-stop shopping destination for realms, planets, and planes. Please fasten your seatbelt and keep you limbs within a reasonable radius of your keyboard at all times.

Worldsingers is a collaborative effort to create a world licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike license (CC BY-SA 3.0), which you can find here: (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/), with attributions made to “Worldsingers.” While it is the intention to make a world which has a Friendship is Magic feel, there’s no guarantee of the finished product sharing much of anything with FiM.

Comrade 25 has presented several excellent points regarding the structuring of this project, and I’ll let him make those points in full himself, but as a tl;dr:

”What are we trying to do here?” and “How are we going to do it?”


My greatest mistake was trying to impose an arbitrary structure for the world’s creation, without participant input and without first considering the logistical issues associated with this project. We are going to be doing things far more organically now, with the structure and impetus of the project being determined by the participants. The premise hasn’t changed, but our approach has.

In case you didn’t catch it above, we are also changing to a wiki format.

The wiki will serve as a point of consolidation for the project’s created content.

Now, without further ado, release the Krak Creativity.
This post was edited by its author on .

The Five-Part Plan 6517

In light of our recent organizational restructuring, I would like to propose that we discuss and vote on the fundamentals of the Worldsingers project while we are still at the early stages. As the shift in our division of labor showed, we require a sound, agreed upon system to avoid doing unnecessary work, foster cooperation, prevent internal conflict, and keep motivation up. The longer we put this off, the higher our chances of meeting hurdles down the road.

So, I propose a five-step plan we can use to create a foundation in an orderly, democratic way. These steps are:

1) Define Purpose and Principles
2) Outcome Visioning
3) Brainstorming
4) Organizing
and
5) Identify Next Actions

Each step involves all of the project members working creatively together in an open discussion, with every member putting forth any new suggestions they might think of or voicing their opinions on the ideas of others. Anything that is “set in stone” is done so through public voting.

One thing that should be noted is that all of these decisions are to be applied on a fundamental level. This is how we decide the very foundations of our project, and while it should be our aim to maintain flexibility to encourage creativity and accommodate as many authors as possible, a project of such a nature will be doomed to fall apart without a system of essential regulations in place.

Explanation of the five-step plan.

1. Define Purpose and Principles

Before we begin our project, it helps to answer the question of “Why?” Why are we doing this? Of course, the answer should be evident to anyone, but the exact reasons might be different for different people. We must define our purposes.

First of all, we want to have fun. For most of us, this is also another opportunity to apply and practice our creative skills, whether in worldbuilding or writing in general. Another reason is that we want to socialize in a creative environment. But there’s a more constructive purpose, too. We have as our goal to create an open world designed to facilitate creativity and free expression among the participants and to eventually accumulate a bigger audience and expand to the other areas of the board. Generally, the more specific a purpose we declare, the better it will be for us.

This is all common sense, but I believe that it is important that we discuss and formalize the purposes of our project. There’s a myriad reasons for this: A clear purpose allows us to define success, even if it’s simply to have fun. It creates decision-making criteria we will use later when searching for answers to other fundamental questions. Having a purpose motivates and clarifies focus like nothing else, and, finally, it expands our options by giving us more room for creativity.

The second thing that will lie at the foundations of our project will be the principles. These will arguably have a more direct effect on the members, as we will use them to create the guidelines and rules that will define our world. Everyone always has some principles, and a lot of the time, they expect that others will adhere to these principles as well. A breach of this “contract” invariably results in stress and conflict (as could have been seen several times already among some of the collaborators).

It will help us greatly to clarify these principles among ourselves before we continue. A good way to find our principles is to complete the sentence: “I would give others totally free rein as long as they…” Note that at this point, we are determining project-wide questions, so these principles should concern the more “meta” levels of our project and avoid going too much into details of worldbuilding. Another thing to keep in mind is creative freedom of the other members. I understand that we are a stubborn bunch, but personal sacrifices are required in this sort of collaborative project.

Some ideas for principles to discuss: Level of possible creative limits on each individual author, guidelines for encouraging others to contribute to already-created content (leaving things unsaid for others to finish), guidelines for the structure and tone of the world, and what to do with disruptive members.

I suggest that everyone brings their own purposes and principles to the table for all to discuss and decide before making them more formal. No matter how elementary this step may seem, it is nonetheless crucial, and the sooner we finish it, the easier and more fun this project will become for us all.

2. Outcome Visioning

To facilitate better creativity and motivation, we should all agree on a vision of successful Worldsingers project. While it’s not likely that it’ll ever be finished in the traditional sense, it helps to envision an outcome that would make you say that the time and effort were well-spent. A lot of this comes from the purposes determined on the first step, but here we are asking the question of “What?” as opposed to “Why?” It will also help if each one of us determines what they would personally see a result that would qualify as an effort well spent.

We won’t see how to do our project until we see ourselves doing it. It can range from a simple statement to a gloriously detailed explanation. There are a few things we can do to envision an outcome with clarity. First, view the project after the main body of work has been done. We have no release date to mind and no marketable product to create, so there really isn’t a way to “complete” Worldsingers. However, there is a point after which it can be considered “mature” when it is developed enough to provide content for future users and contributors. Now, imagine the best possible result of it. Leave the “Yeah, but…” for later. Capture the features, aspects, and qualities you imagined.

Going by the greater purpose described in section one, Worldsingers can one day emerge as a world shared by the whole MLPchan board, with art, fiction, and roleplaying taking place in the setting. How would we accomplish this? How would such a world work? Alternatively, it’ll be most comfortable if the project stays a small collaborative effort made by a tight group of people doing it for fun. That’s worthy of envisioning, too.

3. Brainstorming

After we know what we want to do and why, it’s time to decide on how we are going to do it. Once again, we are talking about project-wide questions, applicable to all or most authors and entries. The brainstorming stage concerns finding both the questions and the answers to them. There’s a myriad of things that need to be discussed, and not only on the meta-level, but on the level of the aspects of the setting that will affect everything, such as the biggest geographical units (landmasses and oceans) and the history of the world (the objective creation myth, so to speak).

The purpose of brainstorming is first and foremost to gather ideas. Putting things into writing and discussing them has the effect of promoting the further creation of new ideas. There’s three important things to remember during brainstorming. First, don’t judge, challenge, evaluate, or criticize. While some discussion is unavoidable and is actually probably preferred, a critical attitude can result in a shortening of creativity, and a creative approach is the center point of the brainstorming stage. And this would certainly not be the time for heated debates. This leads to the second point, quantity, not quality. This means that we should keep our thinking expansive. After all, you don’t know what a good idea is until you have it, or even later on. The more ideas we generate, the better context we’ll have for developing our options. And finally, put analysis and organization in the background. The left-brain should be given a free rein, but at this stage, it should not be the main driver. Keep whatever evaluations you make in mind for the time we get to weeding and organizing.

While the most trivial matters can be resolved as they are brought up, it’s best if we leave the most important decisions for later. There won’t be enough information at this stage to determine such things, and some tasks may grow into full-fledged sub-projects later. Note down the problems and whatever solutions have been brought up, and move on to organizing them.

Everyone should weigh in during brainstorming, putting down whatever thoughts and concerns they have. Again, we are only talking about the meta- and world-level issues right now. It’s best if this stage remains open even after we proceed to organizing everything that we’ve gathered. After all, something new can come up at any time.

4. Organizing

After most of the ideas have been written down, we’ll start to see a structure arising naturally. On this stage, we will create our project plan by identifying priorities, sequences, and relationships. What must we do to create a proper base for the world? In what order should we build it? How do we delegate this work? These and other questions are asked and answered at this stage.

Brainstorming doesn’t actually stop here. Once a structure is identified, “blank spots” will become apparent, ready to be filled with further ideas. Everyone should contribute by asking questions and proposing solutions. This is where the democratic process really gets underway, provided that enough people participate.

5. Next action

Finally, once the organizational malarkey is done, debate over, and rubber-stamped, it’s time to begin creating. Now, the question becomes “What do we do next?” Once this question has a proper answer, the action stage can truly begin.

The project will be properly planned when the next action has been decided on every front that can move forward without something else having to be completed first. In other words, everything that we can do right then and at that moment. These actions can then be distributed among the project members, with anyone taking whatever they want.

Once those actions are completed, more actions become available from the queue or are identified based on the result of the completed action. This process continues, choosing points from the to-do list and doing them once they are available, until the project can be considered “finished” (or until whenver, in our case). Another advantage of conscious action planning is that we can clearly see when more planning is needed. In this case, we simply queue it up as a “planning” action and return to the discussions table.

Well, that was probably a lot wordier than it should have been. If anyone has any questions, comments, criticisms, or propositions, feel free to voice your opinions.

Post-Scriptum: Yes, I borrowed the system from a book. I’ll high-five anyone who knows which one.

Post-Post Scriptum: This is why Twilight Sparkle is best pony.

DemPonies 6518

Coolio!

Nice to see this being back.

To add to what you've already said,: yeah, I'd say we're doing this to have fun (obviously) and the project will have been successful once we've achieved that, and got something to show for it :)

Hi, /art/ 6527

File: 1372248412770.jpg (30.55 KB, 462x462, 12118493_gal.jpg)

You all are welcome here.

>>6519

>>6520
>>6521
>>6522
>>6523
>>6524
>>6525
>>6526
This is why /fic/ cannot have nice things. I kindly ask you to stop derailing and pray that you haven’t doomed the project to irrelevancy due to the fuss of a single person.

>>6516
Now, to begin actually contributing, there are three criteria I have of my own ideal vision of the project:

Simplicity
The core of the world must be readily explainable in one sentence. The inspiring creative drive—the premise—has to be simple. Ditto for the world at large.

Intuitive
The world’s guiding principles must be understandable without contention. They must be inherent and natural, in the sense that one must feel that these things are believable.

Aesthetic
In deciding which contribution to take, I would like the pleasantness and aesthetic of the contribution to be considered foremost, followed by continuity.

Now, I will be away for a few days, but please do come and contribute, everyone.

DemPonies 6529

Now, more to the point, let's discuss the project itself:

>>6527

Hmmm…

"The core of the world must be readily explainable in one sentence"?

Could you give me an example? I can't really think of any existing world in which that is possible. I can't do that with Middle-Earth, for example (Good v.s Evil… elves and dwarves and… made-up languages…?). Would you care to elaborate?

Anonymous 6532

There we go.

Update 6685

File: 1373161296642.jpg (856.83 KB, 2560x1600, spectrum_of_the_sky-wide.jpg)

>>6529
>Could you give me an example? I can't really think of any existing world in which that is possible. I can't do that with Middle-Earth, for example (Good v.s Evil… elves and dwarves and… made-up languages…?). Would you care to elaborate?

The statement does not need to encompass the totality of the project, but rather its heart.

Middle Earth: "A dark force of inestimable power seeks to dominate the peaceable inhabitants of a medieval fantasy."

Now, by no means must this be a requirement. It was only a suggestion. If you find this particularly problematic, it need not be a standard to apply to the foundation of our World-Building efforts.


In other news, I've put up a few of the Resources from the original hubdoc, and I encourage anybody who wishes to add or modify as they see fit: http://worldsingers.wikia.com/wiki/Reference:_Government_Types and http://worldsingers.wikia.com/wiki/Reference:_Biome_Types . I will probably be adding one for Religion/Philosophy as well.

Don't be afraid to add your own content, if you so wish.

As a good friend once said:
Take chances, make mistakes, get messy!
This post was edited by its author on .

ATTENTION EVERYONE 6779

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We'll be having a meetup all day tomorrow (July 13, 2013) to discuss a vision for the project. We'll be using the channel #Worldsingers on Canternet. Connect to Canternet IRC as you usually do and use the command "/join #Worldsingers" to access this channel.

On the agenda will be:
- What are we trying to gain from this project?

- What goals should we set to these ends?

- What guidelines should be set in order to avoid disruptive behavior from members?

- What ideas could we base the world around?

- How do we handle canon?

- Where do we begin creating?

I will try to stay logged on from 13:00 GMT on Sat. to 01:00 GMT on Sun. in order to moderate the discussion and compile all our ideas. You may also use this thread to compile larger ideas that require more space to explain.

I believe also we should try to create a regular meeting interval so that we can collect our thoughts and ensure we are on the same (or similar) wavelength.
This post was edited by its author on .

DemPonies 6835

Sooo…

When's the next meetup-thing?

6836

File: 1374153055829.gif (903.47 KB, 500x313, 130861__safe_princess%252Bcele…)

>>6835
Same time, same place?

DemPonies 6837

>>6836

Same channel?

6838

File: 1374154525926.gif (53.28 KB, 425x411, 287327__safe_princess%252Bluna…)

>>6837
>implying we'd use another

Meetup 6841

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>>6836

Just going to confirm: This is accurate. We'll be meeting tomorrow (Sat., July 20th) all day—or for however long we can go on. I'll try to be there as early as possible, and stay as long as possible.

I will try to set up an itinerary for us, but a lot of it will be played by ear, like last time.

The Same Guidelines Apply:
1) Be open to new ideas and willing to accept criticism.

2) Be polite. If you can't say something nicely, don't say it at all.

3) Stay on topic.
This post was edited by its author on .

World Core 6858

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We're taking submissions for the world's core features, it's base tone, or however you want to phrase it.

The submission document can be found here: http://derpy.me/ws-tone
This post was edited by its author on .

Tactical 6862

Posted.

I don't mean to knock the organizational system, it's just that I don't see this working out. Everyone here knows what they want, and that's a bad thing. it ruins our ability to become more than the sum of a bunch of Disparate parts.

If my desire for a holistic, unifying theme is nothing but me imposing my idea on everyone else, and the idea of allowing us freedom to write what we want is more important, then I'll drop the issue.

Figments!NoTripBecauseDumb 6870

>>6858

Posted. It's super short, but it's there.

Important Things 6887

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Just to make it an official policy, there will be a general meeting held every week on Saturday. Today will be no different. We will discussing more about the world core and hopefully choosing one to run with.

Do check out:
- http://derpy.me/4HcP1 (Current Participants and Rules)
- http://derpy.me/ws-tone (Core Submissions)
- http://vote-kazune.rhcloud.com/issue/1 (Voting for Core Canon)

See either Kazune or me if you have trouble with the voting.

And have a good day.
This post was edited by its author on .

Tactical 6925

Hey guys. WB and I were debating about something really important, and I think it's gonna come down to a vote.

I say our objective is to create one product that is really cool, and all ideas, every single thing written for Worldsingers, should be behind that idea. Nobody gets to write their pet ideas without making sure their primary goal is to make Worldsingers better and fit perfect into it. This is why I argued for us to move to the process we're doing now, where we're deciding on an overall idea before anything else.

WB however doesn't want to limit freedom; he says that the whole idea should be to let people have their pet ideas. He had an idea that unites universes and leaves room for things that clash with everything else.

The difference between us was shown by the way I assumed he meant something different from what he actually did.

See, he had invented an excuse to include anything that people felt like creating. He talked about alternate worlds where anything is possible, but he also left open the possibility to write about worlds that aren't connected, and he meant for worlds to be their own internally working things–artistic freedom for people writing the worlds.

I on the other hand envisioned the Worldsingers project becoming a story about a galactic community of weird stuff, with every single race and every single world having "be an interesting part of the galactic community" as its first and most important objective. Any idea that isn't a really good fit as a "member of the galactic community" should be modified or dropped.

Anyway, I totally understand why WB would want what he wants–the difference is that I think that the final product of Worldsingers is what's important, and I think my paradigm is better for that.

It may be that the focus and coolness of the overall project is less important than I'm making it out to be.

Thanks to WB For bringing this difference to light and thanks in advance for all of your thoughts.

Tactical!fRainBOoMw 6927

>>6925

Oh, and I wrote a whole long thing in the Tone Submissions document that lays out my opinion, with examples.

Writer's Block!hS9ZjLM/uE 6931

>>6925

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hOb92fTeXekd09Xfuxib-m7s9qkG6QVP8OLIZuMpUss/edit?usp=sharing

I suppose I should bring my thoughts on the matter to light and help present both sides of this discussion and debate as was originally had in the most factual manner possible.

If there is still contention on the issue after this doc, then I suppose it is also only reasonable to make sure they are discussed and decided upon so that we can move forward with this project.

So, with that said, I invite Tactical or anyone else here to read through the Doc and find fault with whatever reasoning would require it.
This post was edited by its author on .

Tactical 6932

No time for a proper post. Two quick points.

One. Yes, I am willing to be shoehorned and limited. I forbid myself from writing dark elements in silly humorous clop things; I will abandon my pet ideas to put myself behind an idea that isn't mine.

your arguments here are a lot of false analogies, or false dichotomies, I think you have some of both.

Two, your comparison to "the entire fucking DC universe" or "Superman's entire continuity from Smallville to Superman Prime" is very apt. It also goes to further show that you and I are speaking different languages.

To return to "a car with a kitchen sink in it is just a mess," you're saying let's label Worldsingers as a whole fleet of cars. I say I will sacrifice my ideas and devote my work to one car whether it's exactly what I wanted or not.

My whole argument all along has been encouraging others to take on that mindset.

And my galactic community paradigm is a good compromise anyway :p

Writer's Block!hS9ZjLM/uE 6973

Tactical, I had a revelation the other day: we are debating a point that, in all honesty, is not yet relevant, and now we are both of us looking like fools.

Here is the essential question being asked by what we’re voting on: “Do we want multiple worlds?” I think you and I can both agree, “Yes.” Or, at the very least, “We can work with that.”

What we’re doing now is nit-picking on the extent of what would be done with it, when we have nothing to even work with. We have no worlds to bring into any level of actual conflict, other than the ones you submitted for the express purpose of fulfilling my request that it be attempted so I could try and fit them together.

You are correct that the doc I made up there is a tremendous fustercluck, and I will also add that our discussion was as well, for which I apologize. I tried something I never should have: I spilled a little passion into them both, to emphasize that I do believe that my idea is a good one, but I instead clouded an already muddied issue. I just wasted time with extraneous details and unnecessary metaphor, and confuddled not only myself but you as well.

My wish for “artistic freedom” is not, though my poor word choice may have lead you to believe otherwise, an absolute free-bill to whoever comes along next. I meant more of an opportunity for greater freedom, as the rules of my system are far more flexible than our previous one. Everyone had ideas for magic or tech or races or cultures and was constantly bickering that they had one that no one else was willing to give a chance, so I decided to take those out of the equation for at least this moment in time. I tried to make a system that meant we could experiment more freely with ideas, while still having a reason to try and bring them together beneath one roof.

As you said, there will be some degree of enforcement necessary to keep submissions from being just garbled messes. My hope is that, with such a flexible system in place, we’d have to do just a little less head-bashing on creators. Whole worlds are a lot better and, dare I say, easier for a unique creation from several authors than just one world with several countries. I think we can also agree on this.

What I took exception to was what I saw as thinking on too small a scale, that being just one world or one small community and then not ever touching it again or ever trying to expand on it. I do not think we’d have to box ourselves in like that. However, I was in turn thinking far too many steps ahead and in much too large of a scope when presenting my argument. We are not to the point where we can think about alternate anything, and I should have avoided that topic as I was myself clouding the immediate issue with what are only possible future developments.

To use your own example: we will certainly make only a single car to start with. (That being one set of worlds.) Though I’d certainly hope we get to make more, as I do like creating worlds from the ground-up, I can agree that we must start with them one at a time.

Your thought of a galactic community is just fine. To be honest, I also saw this as working like that for the most part and would have greatly encouraged that route to be emphasized and encouraged for submissions. However, I would also want to remind you that the rules are, within reason and by design, flexible. We might someday want more individual worlds as opposed to a whole universe of everybody knowing everybody. We might someday decide that sound-based portals won’t be the main transportation, and instead just unique to this particular system or galaxy.

We are starting over here, and no idea springs fully-formed from the ether. You admit to not liking it when an author waits around with making stories, simply because they are afraid it will not end up perfect. So let us agree that holding this project in place, simply because we are afraid that it might not become something we like just yet, is unhealthy and counterproductive to us both.

I think it fair to say that what we all want is a big, varied universe to play in and so this is a reason to have that and still have enough wiggle room to either discard or repurpose this idea without starting entirely from scratch, should it be found necessary. We will make a basic idea first (a big universe with various, occupied worlds) and iron out the details the further we get into the process.

So, that said, I do not want to make any further posts on the matter here. If you wish to continue discussing it, I will gladly try and not bungle through my words on the Worldsingers IRC, but I encourage us both to refrain from dragging this out any further than it has already been. I am, quite frankly, embarrassed with how much a mess I’ve already made of things and would instead like to move past it and get to the more important decisions at immediate hand than with a future which is not yet ready to be faced.
This post was edited by its author on .

State of Affairs; a.k.a. “The Best Laid Plans” 7081

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I really want this project to work out. I believed that it was something that could revitalize our board. But I’ve realized I don’t have the direction or the drive to see it through. I thought that raw potential was all that was necessary for this project to succeed. But it isn’t.

We need someone who can plan, and plan well. Someone who can develop scalable and extensible models, then delegate positions to those involved, seeing that things are accomplished, that milestones are reached, that everyone can make their bed and sleep in it.

With the original model, there was enough novelty to promote enthusiasm, but it was neither scalable nor extensible, and eventually collapsed under its own weight after the initial fervor died down.

With the second model, care was taken to ensure that the system the project was built over was simple, powerful, and flexible. But general laxness has hindered actually completing this infrastructure and building on it.

I’ve found myself inadequate to lead this project. My time for /fic/ly things has become sparse recently, and it will only dwindle in the coming days. I have my own vision for an amazing project, and I don’t necessarily want to do it alone, but I can’t afford to organize a new collaborative effort.

Maybe someday I’ll have something to show for it. I hope I do.

This is goodbye for now.

See you soon.


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