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File: 1388618246192.png (458.13 KB, 1280x720, Rarity__She's_the_Wonderbolts'…)

Season 4 Episode8 Streaming/Discussion Thread The Person Who Posts As Fluttershy (Element of Self-descriptive Usernames) 27289

This week's episode is titled Rarity Takes Manehattan and is written by Dave Polsky The synopsis is:
Rarity is thrilled to be heading to Manehattan for an important fashion show and brings all of her friends along for a high-class adventure in the city she loves. But when another designer ruins Rarity’s chances at winning the competition, she turns to the rest of the Mane Six for help, not realizing that her anger and ambition are damaging her friendships

Airing, streaming information and YouTube links
The episode will air Saturday at 10:30AM Eastern 7:30AM Pacific

stream and chat is available at http://www.bronystate.net/theater/applejack/

YouTube links will be added when available.

Starting topics
>Rarity episode!
>what do you think Manehattan is like?
>Is it possable to make a worse pun then "the devil wears Pony-Rada"

Please remember to tag spoilers properly
You can utilize the "hide" function (ctrl+h or [ h ][ /h ] (without space) to hide large sections of spoiler to avoid big blacked out sections.

Heavy Mole 27290

File: 1388623167314.gif (Spoiler Image,116.29 KB, 500x712, full.gif)

"Also, a mishap during the fashion show transforms Fluttershy into a gigantic monster spider…"

Anonymous 27291

File: 1388624817257.png (Spoiler Image,338.98 KB, 1280x931, Spiderity.png)

Dahling. I believe you miss your mark.

Anonymous 27292

File: 1388624855440.gif (1.78 MB, 420x236, Rarity must go.gif)

BMO 27293

File: 1388862842951.png (235.26 KB, 1024x939, cute_rarity_by_mushroom_cookie…)

Dat was pretty good.
Rarity episodes always seem to be spectacular.

I've heard a few people (Youtubers, what're ya gonna do?) bitching that Rarity is only generous because people scratch her back if she scratches theirs, but she is often seen greatly over compensating for everything in her generosity, not ever expecting anything in return.
This episode shows many occasions of her being generous and then getting nothing or even scorn in return, though also showing a decent amount where she is generous and gets kindness in return.

The song is lampshaded hilariously, which made it all the better, being a good song on it's own anyway. Rarity just gets the best episodes it seems.


File: 1388864399719.png (184.87 KB, 410x441, 1343117066917.png)

This episode was amazing. Easily best of the season.

The Person Who Posts As Fluttershy (Element of Self-descriptive Usernames) 27295

>Rarity just gets the best episodes it seems.
I've noticed that. I think it may be because she's the sort personality that's often written about but not often shown in a good light.

Anonymous 27296

>a fedora, and a meme for a cutie mark

I really hope you bronies are proud as to what lengths you’ve pulled this show down to.

Anonymous 27297

File: 1388867143698.gif (540.71 KB, 1064x750, Rainbow Dash has a crush on Ra…)

>tfw salt water exits your body, accompanied by strong emotion


File: 1388870463393.png (227.26 KB, 672x692, sweetie79.png)

Really guys? I didn't care for it at all. I'm surprised to see such a differing view. First, they had to make such a huge deal of generosity because that's not how Rarity acts at all in other episodes, with the constant gifting to strangers and abundant tipping. It's like the writers finally remembered what her element is and had to go to great lengths to establish it quickly, since she hasn't done anything kind since Season 1.

Next, Manehatten was actually too much like Manhattan, which I guess is the point, but I think it went too far. A pony statue of liberty? The city didn't feel like something that belongs in the canon of the show. The entire cab problem felt completely manufactured simply because cabs are a problem in our world. "Oh no, I'm here with the Teleporting Princess and the Fastest Flyer in all of Equestria. How ever will I get across town?"

Lots of other things urked me too. Hotdogs are established canon since Fall Weather Friends, so why are they carrots now? Why does Spike want to eat one? It's not a gemstone. What does fixing wheels have to do with Rarity's special talent and therefore her magic, or are we all just Twilight level now? How did Sirry plan to continue to produce the fabric Rarity made to fill future orders? Was the fabric really that special if Rarity can beat it with one night's work? Does no one care she destroyed her hotel room? How pissed must the cast of the musical been to have to put on another show on no notice? Did they care that Rarity isn't going to fulfill her end of the bargain and is instead outsourcing to some pony she just met?

I'm a well established Rarity fan by now, but I gotta say, her other episodes (and songs) are much better by comparison.

Heavy Mole 27299

File: 1388871918566.gif (492.96 KB, 400x300, lucy288.gif)

Was anyone else momentarily fooled into thinking that Rarity was going to move to Manehattan, and have Coco Pamel (?) as an apprentice (effectively making this episode her "Magical Mystery Cure")?

Anonymous 27300

Remember to spoiler spoiled items!

BMO 27301

Right. Just figured it'd be weird to spoiler the whole thing.

Manehatten has always looked like that.
We haven't seen many cities BUT Manehatten, and it's really always been like that. It's only gotten a slight make over since The Cutie Mark Chronicles, and that was not only seasons ago, but ages ago. Taxies have always been in the show, so it's not too weird.
The whole trouble of Rarity being late was kinda random and didn't really even do to much for the episode as a whole, however. So, that whole part could have been cut, especially since the problem just solved itself. Sure, it was to show "HEY! LOOK, GENEROSITY MAKES NICE THINGS HAPPEN!" but it wasn't a very good way of doing that, especially since the rest of the episode did a better job of it.

It was a little strange that Rarity was just tipping everyone, but we've never seen her just buy things like that, so we don't know if that's just normal, and it doesn't seem out of the ordinary. We've also never seen her just giving things out, but she's rarely in situation like that either. Point is, it was a little forced, but it was also a montage as well as just situations that the show never needed to address anyway.
It was a montage, montages bring out specific things. That's the nature of it.

I'm fairly certain I've never actually seen a hot dog in MLP. Perhaps they were always carrots. Why are they called hotdogs? Because they are, it's just what it is.
Why does spike want to eat one? He's hungry. And he can eat more than just gems.

Rarity has been shown to just put things together in the past. This isn't new for her. Sure, it was just fabrics in the past, but why not a wheel? Especially a simple little wooden wheel.
Why does no one care she destroyed the room? She probably paid for all the shit she broke.
Sirry is stupid. She probably was just gonna guess. Or like… backwards manufacture it, figure it out.
Rarity wins because Rarity. Which, I honestly thought was one of the stupidest parts of the episode. She should have won by having it revealed that her stuff was stolen. Not with random ragtag hotel clothes because "rarara is good with clothes".
Perhaps they just needed a pony, and Rarity offered and then they can get someone Rarity affirms is good. This is not an inconceivable situation.

Point is, it seems like you're digging way too deep into everything and then not going deep enough. Either appreciate it or don't, we can all like different things, but don't just dig into it and not even do a thorough job of deconstructing what you don't like.


File: 1388876692203.jpg (18.17 KB, 225x316, sweetie120.jpg)

It's clearly labelled as an episode discussion thread.

Scootapuff!saU4Tsd4dU 27303

People can still see it while on the front page though.

Heavy Mole 27304

File: 1388877453135.png (Spoiler Image,99.01 KB, 286x285, rara.png)


"Out of the way, jackass!"

Hulkbow!SMASH/3FWA 27305

Episode didn't flow at all. Characterizations were off. Only Fluttershy seemed to be more or less herself, though only because she was mostly quiet. Speaking of which, Fluttershy screws up sewing, which she's already hinted at being good at in Suited, but princess-who-needs-books-for-everything picks it up instantly?

The whole thing felt fanfic-level to me. At least the animation was decent.


File: 1388902588947.png (809.35 KB, 938x740, sweetie567.png)

Rewatching season one's entry, I see that you are correct, the statue of pony liberty appeared there too, so I suppose I must retract that point. I still would much prefer MLP created their own lifestyles for the world, rather than just cut and paste ours while inserting ponies. The statue, the hotdogs, the pigeons, the taxis, the grumpy people… It was too much for my tastes.

If Spike was so hungry, maybe he'd like a gem. That's what he eats. She was certainly throwing them around at the time.

Regarding the wheel, Boast Busters clearly explains that unicorns only possess a little magic that is relevant to their special talent. I see no relation between fixing a wooden wheel and fashion or gem finding.

So mean. Remember that time she stole Spike's birthday gift?

And that reminds me, what was it that had Rainbow saying at the end? 'A'ight?' She's getting as try hard as Pinkie was last season.

Anonymous 27307

File: 1388940390816.jpg (112.38 KB, 600x900, fashionable gentleman.jpg)

She won because fashion critics love stupid shit.

And what could be stupider and mor random than what Rarity made.

Heavy Mole 27308

File: 1388944560652.gif (417.73 KB, 245x210, lucy284.gif)

I think you're right that there are a lot of contrived elements in this episode, though some of the things you list are more important than others (like, who cares if Spike is eating a carrot?).

>First, they had to make such a huge deal of generosity because that's not how Rarity acts at all in other episodes, with the constant gifting to strangers and abundant tipping.

The more episodes I see from this season, the more convinced I am that the writers and showrunner were trying to make the fandom happy by giving it things that it apparently *literally* wants. People complain and make jokes that Rarity is hardly ever "generous"–so why not rectify it by throwing a big musical number about how she really *is* generous, right in the beginning of her first episode in almost two years? (Note also in this connection how Applejack is "honest" by telling Rarity 'how it is' at the end).

I think that most of the contrived, zany stuff we've seen this season is a result of direct interaction of content creators with fans of the show. It's like we're getting the first series of dresses that Rarity made in "Suited for Success", and it represents an interesting flip-side to the benefits of Internet super-connectivity.

>Manehatten was actually too much like Manhattan, which I guess is the point, but I think it went too far.

I can see how this might bother some people, but I found it fun to spot the familiar locations that were worked into the setting.

I was actually more pissed that we didn't get a visual cameo from Babs Seed!

>How did Sirry plan to continue to produce the fabric Rarity made to fill future orders? Was the fabric really that special if Rarity can beat it with one night's work? Does no one care she destroyed her hotel room?

Some of the textual elements of the plot don't hold up under a microscope, but for me the real juice was what was going on between the characters on an emotional level. Not the same kind of unity of form and function you might find in something from season one (and actually, "Suited for Success" has a somewhat inexplicable ending), but I'd take the gist of an episode like this over "Daring Do is real" or "Fluttershy is a vampire now".


Overall, I really liked it, and am wondering if Scootaloo and Rarity shouldn't just have their own spin-off show.


File: 1388950421056.png (161.44 KB, 634x350, sweetie471a.png)

I realized something else last night too. I was thinking about Twilight. She's a princess now. Are you telling me that a princess was having trouble getting tickets to a show and hailing a cab? One episode, she's next in line for the throne when Celestia and Luna are missing. And now ponies won't let her cut in line for a cab? I know no one (fans) wanted her to change following her princesshood, but this leaves me wondering why they changed her at all (sell toys).

Hulkbow!SMASH/3FWA 27310

>And that reminds me, what was it that had Rainbow saying at the end? 'A'ight?'
Argh. Yeah. That was a face-palmer.

STOP TRIGGERING ME WITH YOUR VICTIM-BLAMING YOU PATRIARCHAL CIS SCUM! But seriously, don't blame us for the shitty writing, DHX answers to Hasbro.


She's vanished into the abyss Twilight's BBBFF lived in prior to the wedding commercegasm.

Heavy Mole 27311

File: 1388958402617.png (80 KB, 366x651, lucy279.png)

I'm not blaming the fandom for bad writing, I'm blaming DHX (insofar as "blame" needs to be passed around) for playing to the gallery. It's how we got Equestria Girls!

Hulkbow!SMASH/3FWA 27312

File: 1388974033870.jpg (27.85 KB, 600x200, Mike-Vogel-VP-of-Development-H…)

I'm pretty sure pic related is how we got EqG. Remember, Hasbro's the boss, DHX is just the talented monkey who gets paid to dance on command. And even so, for all the cries of doom that preceded it, EqG wound up being pretty much a non-issue. It wasn't great, it wasn't horrible, and it has practically no influence on the tv series.

S03 was underwhelming too, but again pandering to the fans can hardly be blamed for that. I'm not ready to throw S04 under the bus, even if I haven't had my socks blown off by it yet, and I'm certainly not ready to point fingers in blame for that conclusion I haven't reached.

Dunno. I think what rubs me the wrong way about accusations of pandering is they just taste like "They're not writing it the way *I* want it written!" A complaint that they're writing for everyone but the complainer. Implying that if that one specific cause of hamfisted writing were taken away, suddenly the writing would magically become elegant and perfect. Putting it another way, I think that if their goal was indeed to address fan concerns, it could've been done in more subtle and agreeable ways, so it wasn't so much the goal that's the problem as the approach to that goal. And that's still assuming that this IS a problem rather than trying to force speculation into something more meaningful than it really is. So is it that the writing has gone downhill? Something in the editing process? Still too much influence from untalented managers? Or is it just that premature conclusions are being jumped to?


File: 1388974549265.jpg (151.1 KB, 672x707, sweetie369.jpg)

>EqG wasn't great, it wasn't horrible, and it has practically no influence on the tv series.

Except it cost us half a season.

Anonymous 27314

File: 1388979228420.jpg (224.08 KB, 1920x1080, image.jpg)

It was aight

Legendary!!VhZ4lFrash 27315

>ponies just bursting into song at the drop of a hat
I laughed by I hate myself for it. That was dumb, just straight dumb.

Anonymous 27316

>wet mane rarity again
OH yes.
God that hair style is gorgeous.

Anonymous 27317

>If Spike was so hungry, maybe he'd like a gem. That's what he eats. She was certainly throwing them around at the time.

Spike: "Hey, those carrotdogs look delicious. Can I have one?"
Rarity: "If you are hungry, then take one of my gems."
Spike: "But I really want to try-"
Rarity: "EAT IT UP!"

The Person Who Posts As Fluttershy (Element of Self-descriptive Usernames) 27318

>Sirry has pony named after her now

Anonymous 27319

File: 1389036910915.png (619.3 KB, 1280x1280, Lightning Dust wet mane.png)

Gotta love wet manes.

[Lampshade Intensifies]

Heavy Mole 27320

File: 1389046182155.png (75.48 KB, 235x250, lucy14.png)

I think it's a little uncertain to assume how decision-making is made between DHX and Hasbro without actually being privy to that relationship. It's true that Hasbro is primarily interested in the show's profitability, but it's a little unfair to compare its workings with the studio to a master and monkey; you may as well credit Hasbro for good craftsmanship, if that's the case.

In any case, there was a panel with the comic artists where it came up as a point–they did EqG because they thought that's what you wanted (because of the anthro art). EqG was okay, but it's more meant to illustrate that major creative choices are made based on the kind of direct "feedback" that a structure like the Internet makes possible, something entertainment companies of yore surely would have been wild to have. It's interesting to observe because it's a game-changer–we're getting to see large-scale content providers grapple with a new model which comes with new benefits and drawbacks (MLP may not have gotten as big as it did without the same interactivity, after all).

One effect of the Internet is that studios like DHX really can be directly in touch with what their audience thinks about their shows (as opposed to the "here goes nothing" old model of big industry). It's like "pandering", but not quite; kind of like the difference between "spying" and "data collecting".

I suppose to absolve myself of bias on this, I would need to furnish some examples which match my "disquisition". Here are a few, I think:

>Twilight being a princess, but not being written any differently in the show (even when it doesn't make sense);

>Every episode featuring the full cast (even when it isn't necessary);
>Greater use of thinly veiled references to popular media;
>Zany plot-framing devices which seem to draw from the collective imagination of the fandom, such as batponies and super heroes;
>Other miscellaneous small things, such as AJ's "honest" remark and that fedora pony

Of course, I have no way of knowing for certain, I could be totally wrong. Nor should it all be interpreted as "bad"–just different, sometimes different in ways that are not very appealing to me personally. But I can offer observations about it without seeming like I'm throwing season four under the bus, right?

Scootapuff!saU4Tsd4dU 27321

File: 1389058828109.jpg (27.14 KB, 320x325, image.jpg)

Isn't it though? Mmm.

Hulkbow!SMASH/3FWA 27322

File: 1389124639268.png (254 KB, 500x398, mlp-s03-infoleak.png)

>I think it's a little uncertain to assume how decision-making is made between DHX and Hasbro without actually being privy to that relationship.
Eh, true. Pic related coupled with Vogel's interview* where he said he likes to shake things up and doesn't mind upsetting fans certainly pointed toward Hasbro heavy-handedness. And since it would be highly unprofessional for anyone at DHX (or IDW, or Enterplay, etc) to openly criticize Hasbro, anything they say has to be read with that relationship in mind. Consider too that Faust went from enthusiastic creator to quitting in frustration. But as you say, it's just guesswork based on available clues.

>you may as well credit Hasbro for good craftsmanship, if that's the case.

Wat. So if I toss a coin in a busker's hat, I'm now the one who should get all the credit for his playing skill? You're not making sense there. Or if it's just that you object to the "Dance, monkey boy!" metaphor, how about Hasbro says "Jump" and DHX says "How high?"

>there was a panel with the comic artists

That's one I missed, then. Got a link? Though, I'm not sure how involved the comic artists are in the animation side of things, especially since they're at a completely separate company, and considering staff aren't always as informed as they think (like Tabitha thinking Derpy was male–and apparently nobody else present at the recording session corrected her), I'm not sure how reliable I'd consider that info unless they for sure got it from someone like Jayson or Wootie.

>But I can offer observations about it without seeming like I'm throwing season four under the bus, right?

Sure, and perhaps I misinterpreted your original posts. It sounded to me at the time like you'd written off the whole season only a few episodes in.

* http://collider.com/mike-vogel-hasbro-studios-transformers-prime-comic-con-interview/

Heavy Mole 27323

File: 1389148279769.png (38.73 KB, 188x162, lucy169.png)

>bullet one
I thought Faust left due to a shift in career priorities?

I haven't seen that pic before, though the fact that Hasbro is "taking more control of the brand" makes sense with other recent moves, like yanking Youtube videos, court ordering certain fan projects to desist, etc. Who is the quote from?

To me, it's still in the province of speculation to say "this happened because so-and-so said so," although there may still be executive orders (I forget that there's a toy line to go with the show). I've been involved in creative projects that get presented in public where people run with a totally wrong idea based on an outside impression…

>bullet two

The point of that was that if you believe Hasbro and DHX have a mechanical relationship like that, then it would be equally logical to credit the company with good things that come out of the show as well. The artists still have some discretion, though working within variously defined parameters.

>bullet three

I looked for it when I was making the previous post, as I wanted to review it myself. But it's hard to find.

>bullet four

Nah, I'm not a hater. Sometimes it's fun to talk in absolutes and make predictions, though, as long as we don't take them too seriously.

Hulkbow!SMASH/3FWA 27324

File: 1389167583151.png (66.08 KB, 827x592, Faust_quits.png)

Faust: See pic, especially the bit about "personal involvement and control." As I said before, openly talking shit about clients is a bad idea, so the fact that she was this explicit about the creative differences is pretty telling.

The previous image was released anonymously, so it was scoffed quite a bit as nothing more than random drama-mongering as much as the faked Derpy episode "leak" was. I can't remember for certain if it came out before S03 or shortly after the season began, but I do know I saw it before the things it talked about happened.

I'm not sure what you mean by mechanical. It's a client/contractor type relationship. Technically, yes, a contractor can argue with or even fire clients, but it's not something you do lightly if you enjoy eating. So when your client says to make it pink and put wings and a crown on it, you make it pink, you put the fucking wings and crown on it, and you throw in a free handjob if it'll keep them sending work your way. If you're very good, you do all this in a way that also protects them from their own stupidity and makes them think they're geniuses.


File: 1389236431803.png (254.26 KB, 1024x843, sweetie403.png)

"However, that pales in comparison to something that came down from above regarding s4."

Welp, there's more evidence towards my other topic, as if the thread spool in this episode wasn't enough. Guess I'll go, I don't know, off myself or get a job or something.

Heavy Mole 27326

File: 1389238372685.gif (1.32 MB, 400x307, lucy285.gif)

Rainbows brought them into the world, and gosh darnit, rainbows can take 'em out, too.


File: 1389238856350.jpg (158.85 KB, 739x688, sweetie256.jpg)

Kind of starting to hope it does. Before they become Transformers or all get permanently reverted to infancy or whatever the higher ups have for season 5. Actually, those are both better ideas than whatever Hasbro has.

Hulkbow!SMASH/3FWA 27328

File: 1389255934779.gif (42.78 KB, 240x240, MMC_Derpy_winking.gif)

I entered S04 with a lot of skepticism and very little enthusiasm, and for all the faults that can be pointed out it's actually been better than I expected so far. This episode is probably my least favorite of what we've seen this season, though I'm not sure where the script fell short (stupid ideas from Hasbro? Polsky living up to his reputation? Something in the editing process?) Still, production is good. That leak said the crew is trying their best with the circumstances and I believe it.

Oh, and as for Derpy, this is exactly why I saw pic related in the S03 finale as a combined "Fuck you" to Hasbro's micromanagement and a high-five to the fans.

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